Baptist Opinion Wanted

[BjBarnett]

Hello my brethern in Christ

Would you guys be so kind as to give me your opinion? I come to ask you guys because I am of a Baptist background so I like to know how Baptist look at things as well Anyway here is what I want your Opinion on....

In the following verses from Galatians these different bible versions refer to Peter as "Cephas". They seem to use Cephas and Peter interchanglably as his name (depending on the bible version). Since these 3 bible versions all state that Peter is Cephas and Cephas being translated means "rock" to me that supports the Catholic view (maybe its not just a Catholic view) that Jesus made Peter the rock of the church (Matthew 16:18). So in short what im asking is do you guys think that Jesus made Peter the "rock" of the church and whats your take on the bible refering to Peter as Cephas which means rock? Here are the verses from Galatians.

9 And when they had known the grace that was given to me, James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship: that we should go unto the Gentiles, and they unto the circumcision:

10 Only that we should be mindful of the poor: which same thing also I was careful to do.

11 But when Cephas was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

12 For before that some came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them who were of the circumcision.

13 And to his dissimulation the rest of the Jews consented: so that Barnabas also was led by them into that dissimulation.

14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly unto the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all: If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of the Gentiles and not as the Jews do, how dost thou compel the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

KJV
[bible]Galatians 2:9-14[/bible]

9 James, Peter[1] and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the Jews. 10 All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.

Paul Opposes Peter

11 When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. 12 Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

Footnotes
2:9 Greek Cephas; also in verses 11 and 14

*note: the NIV bible doesnt say in the verses "Cephas" but confirms that Peter is Cephas in the Footnotes (atleast this one does).


If you guys can give me your opinions on if you think that Jesus made Peter the rock of the church that would be great thanks in advanced guys (sorry for the long post)

 

[Iollain]

I really don't think it would matter either way, rock or not, cause if Peter did start 'the Church', some of it has moved away from what God teaches, and followed what man teaches.

 

[Sinai]

Hello my brethern in Christ

Would you guys be so kind as to give me your opinion? I come to ask you guys because I am of a Baptist background so I like to know how Baptist look at things as well Anyway here is what I want your Opinion on....

In the following verses from Galatians these different bible versions refer to Peter as "Cephas". They seem to use Cephas and Peter interchanglably as his name (depending on the bible version). Since these 3 bible versions all state that Peter is Cephas and Cephas being translated means "rock" to me that supports the Catholic view (maybe its not just a Catholic view) that Jesus made Peter the rock of the church (Matthew 16:18). So in short what im asking is do you guys think that Jesus made Peter the "rock" of the church and whats your take on the bible refering to Peter as Cephas which means rock? Here are the verses from Galatians.

If you guys can give me your opinions on if you think that Jesus made Peter the rock of the church that would be great thanks in advanced guys (sorry for the long post)

Simon Peter's name was Simon, the son of Jonah. Cephas is the Aramaic form of the Greek word petros, which is the word used in Matthew 16:18. If you examine that scripture in the original Greek, it should be rather clear that Jesus was using a play on words rather than saying that Peter would be the rock upon which he would build his church. Remember the context. Jesus had asked his disciples how he was regarded by the people. After they had responded with some of the ideas espoused by others, Jesus asked them directly what they themselves believed. Simon answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Jesus commended Simon's great confessional statement and then pointed out that Simon's confession made him truly Peter--a piece of rock or stone (petros). Then Jesus added, "upon this great rock (petra) I will build my church. Peter was a petros (a small rock or stone), while either the truth of the confession or the Truth mentioned in the confession (Christ himself) was the petra (a huge stone or caprock).

 

[BronxBriar]

Simon Peter's name was Simon, the son of Jonah. Cephas is the Aramaic form of the Greek word petros, which is the word used in Matthew 16:18. If you examine that scripture in the original Greek, it should be rather clear that Jesus was using a play on words rather than saying that Peter would be the rock upon which he would build his church. Remember the context. Jesus had asked his disciples how he was regarded by the people. After they had responded with some of the ideas espoused by others, Jesus asked them directly what they themselves believed. Simon answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Jesus commended Simon's great confessional statement and then pointed out that Simon's confession made him truly Peter--a piece of rock or stone (petros). Then Jesus added, "upon this great rock (petra) I will build my church. Peter was a petros (a small rock or stone), while either the truth of the confession or the Truth mentioned in the confession (Christ himself) was the petra (a huge stone or caprock).

And that should settle it!

 

[bleechers]

Thanks for asking!

11 But when Cephas was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Well he apparently wasn't infallible. Paul had to correct his doctrine.

Let's see what Cephas had to say:

1 Peter 2
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ...
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

God alone is the Rock.

1 Samuel 2
2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.

Matthew 7
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock...

1 Corinthians 3
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

We build upon the solid rock of Christ, not on the shifting sands of any man. As you can see from Galatians 2, Peter was very fallible. The house of God is not a physical building, it is a building made of souls. The apostles built their doctrines on the firm foundation which is Christ and His gospel. The born-again are neatly fitted as lively stones upon that Rock as Christ builds His church.



In Matthew 16, Jesus was clearly referring to Peter's confession that Jesus "is the Christ, the Son of the Living God!" If someone wants to contend that Jesus meant that Peter was the rock and not the statement, then he'll need to explain the first words to leave Peter's lips after this great pronouncement of his supposed "primacy".

21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

So the first thing Peter does after being given the power to "bind and to loose" is to deny the cross. Not exactly infallible.

Then, if we want to interpret Christ's previous words to Peter as referring to Peter himself and not to his words, what do you do with "Get thee behind me, Satan"? Do you want to contend that Peter is the same as Satan? Or merely that his pronouncement was of Satan? Obviosly the latter. It is the same with the previous. Jesus was referring to Peter's pronouncement. And as was noted, the greek was a play on words.

Even if in some way, Jesus was pointing to Pentecost, there is no way succession can be derived from here or in Matthew 18.

Ephesians 2
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

The church is a building built by Christ Himself ("I will build My church"). Jesus is the head of the church. By faith we are baptized by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ and become lively stones as a living temple. Jesus dwells in a temple not made by hands.

"Come unto ME" is the cry of the Savior. Never "go to Peter, then unto Me."

As for the "gates of hell, " there is also much there that is commonly misunderstood... but that is for another day.

 

[BronxBriar]

And THAT really settles it!

Bleechers you are a great one!

 

[daveleau]

To answer your question directly, Cephas is Peter's surname.
Petros (Peter, or sliver of rock) did great work and brought many to Christ. I have always wondered, though, why the Catholics did not choose Paul as their leader, since there is no evidence of Peter going to Rome; and Paul was the preacher to the Romans. Anyway, I am all for all of us getting back to the basics of God's Word and giving up our silly divisions which do nothing but hurt Christ's Church.

 

[JM]

Baptists hold the same opinion as the early Christians.

Justin Martyr, Second Apology [Chapter 113] For I have shown that Christ was proclaimed by the prophets in parables a Stone and a Rock.

[Chapter 114] And our hearts are thus circumcised from evil, so that we are happy to die for the name of the good Rock, which causes living water to burst forth for the hearts of those who by Him have loved the Father of all, and which gives those who are willing to drink of the water of life.

And it seems most Baptists would agree with the Eastern Orthodox as well.

The Roman Catholic apologists' argument that ke'pha' underlies both Πέτρος and πέτρᾳ also ignores the fact that Aramaic has words other than ke'pha' to refer to rocks and stones (e.g. shu'a' ) and it ignores the fact that if Saint Matthew had desired to write that the Church would be built on the Apostle Peter, he could have phrased it more explicitly. The Roman Catholic apologists' argument also misapplies English's use of the demonstrative pronoun to the Greek language, assuming that this refers to the noun previously referenced (Peter) when it refers to the subject closest to the speaker (in this case the Lord Jesus Himself) — it is quite possible that as the Lord Jesus Christ spoken the words, on this rock, He gestured to Himself.

 

[BjBarnett]

thanks for the opinions guys

 

[MbiaJc]

Hello my brethern in Christ

Would you guys be so kind as to give me your opinion? I come to ask you guys because I am of a Baptist background so I like to know how Baptist look at things as well Anyway here is what I want your Opinion on....

In the following verses from Galatians these different bible versions refer to Peter as "Cephas". They seem to use Cephas and Peter interchanglably as his name (depending on the bible version). Since these 3 bible versions all state that Peter is Cephas and Cephas being translated means "rock" to me that supports the Catholic view (maybe its not just a Catholic view) that Jesus made Peter the rock of the church (Matthew 16:18). So in short what im asking is do you guys think that Jesus made Peter the "rock" of the church and whats your take on the bible refering to Peter as Cephas which means rock? Here are the verses from Galatians.




KJV
Galatians 2:9-149 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. 10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do. 11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. 14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?



*note: the NIV bible doesnt say in the verses "Cephas" but confirms that Peter is Cephas in the Footnotes (atleast this one does).


If you guys can give me your opinions on if you think that Jesus made Peter the rock of the church that would be great thanks in advanced guys (sorry for the long post)

Matthew 16:13-When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


Upon this rock I will build my Church. Jesus is referring to what Peter said in v16. Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And that is exactly what the Church is built on. That rock not Peter whose name means rock.

 

[theseed]

I think Peter is Greek, and Cephas is Aramaic, but they both mean stone. The Roman Catholics are right about being leader of the Apostles. However, I see no biblical proof of Apostolic Succession.

 

[JM]

I think Peter is Greek, and Cephas is Aramaic, but they both mean stone. The Roman Catholics are right about being leader of the Apostles. However, I see no biblical proof of Apostolic Succession.

What was James position in the early Church, it seems to me Peter looks to him to settles issues.

 

[bleechers]

What was James position in the early Church, it seems to me Peter looks to him to settles issues.

Not to mention Paul blasting Peter in Galatians 2.

 

[Ave Maria]

Are you referring to the Peter being called "the rock" as in the founder of the Catholic Church? If you are, it is my opinion that Peter did NOT found the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church formed a few hundred years after the apostles didn't it?

 

[BT]

Are you referring to the Peter being called "the rock" as in the founder of the Catholic Church? If you are, it is my opinion that Peter did NOT found the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church formed a few hundred years after the apostles didn't it?

Depends on who you ask. Ask a Catholic and they'll tell you that Jesus Himself made the Catholic church. Talk to anyone else and you get a different story. Revisionist history at its best/worst I suppose.

 

[JM]

Depends on who you ask. Ask a Catholic and they'll tell you that Jesus Himself made the Catholic church. Talk to anyone else and you get a different story. Revisionist history at its best/worst I suppose.

Why is it that only the RC church sees Peter as the rock, while other 'traditional' churches do not?

 

[BT]

Why is it that only the RC church sees Peter as the rock, while other 'traditional' churches do not?

Probably because the Catholics do not see the Bible as the sole authority, and some Pope or such made a bad interpretation of the verse. Which became Gospel to them. I read the explanation on a Catholic apologetics website once and it was something along those lines. Some cardinal or pope or some such said that's what it means so that is obviously more inspired that the Bible.

 

[BjBarnett]

Are you referring to the Peter being called "the rock" as in the founder of the Catholic Church? If you are, it is my opinion that Peter did NOT found the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church formed a few hundred years after the apostles didn't it?

yeah as BT said the Catholic view is that the church was formed in AD 33.

 

[RED that's ME]

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