Baptist History

[BjBarnett]

Hello my brothers and sisters in Christ I have another question hope you guys dont mind me asking things hehe

anyhow i was wondering if you guys could throw some Baptist church history facts my way. I am mainly looking for like a guess on the date the church was formed and if it was a calvinist movement, or wesleyian or something to that effect. any bit of historical information would be great though thanks guys!

 

[TwinCrier]

Yopu can search the internet for "The Trail of Blood" which is a brief but well written history of the Baptist church.
http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0172.htmhttp://www.picknowl.com.au/homepages/rlister/baphist/blood/trail.htm

 

[Cright]

http://www.reformedreader.org/btimline.htm

Here's an easy to scan time line of Baptist History... gives a lil reformation info.

*side note* Zwingali (an ordained Catholic Priest) was the 1st in late 1400's early 1500's, many of those who agreed w/him and those who gathered in secret to study w/ him were murdered by "the church". Dround to be exact... they were said to have "sined by water so they shall die by water". They were tied up and bricks tied to their ropes and dumped publicly into the middle of lakes.

Baptist early history is not pretty... I have tons of info at home... if you don't find all the info you want w/ this thread PM me your email address and I'd be happy to send you some of the word attachements I have on the reformation, history, and the different scriptures that the reformers based their objections on.

God Bless,
Carina

 

[JM]

Baptists are not protestant and our church didn't come out of the reformation. We did get a voice and better organization during the reformation but neither Calvin nor Luther wanted anything to do with us.

http://www.picknowl.com.au/homepages/rlister/bibfund/baptists.htm

"The term, ‘Protestant’ has a variety of meanings and applications. Its earliest use was by a group of German nobles who opposed the Catholic majority at the Diet of Speier in 1529. In reaction to certain Catholic threats, the Lutheran minority drafted a statement of ‘protest’ and thus became ‘protesters’ or ‘protestants." Its first use, therefore, was in a civil context.

Secondly, there is a real sense in which the word might be restricted to the Lutherans. It was the sympathizers of Martin Luther who in the 16th century became the first Protestants."

​

I'll pm you a link, I think it maybe against the rules if I post it.

SP

 

[Cright]

StreetPreacher,

With all due respect I'd have to disagree. Though Baptist and Anabaptists have roots prior to the time of reformation and afterword, the main movement was after the reformation.
Weather or not we came out of the reformation has nothing to do w/ being protestant. If you protest the teachings of the Catholic Church (uppercase) than you are protesting weather silently or not. Therefore, many Baptists are protestant, though some might not be.

back on the subject of the thread however... thank you for the link you provided which is very informational.. do you have any other sources you could PM me w/ the info, the stuff prior to reformation?

Carina

 

[JM]

Still, history disagrees.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

Street,
She is a Baptist.

 

[JM]

Street,
She is a Baptist.

Thanks GEL, I was dealing with a catholic on another forum and it spilled over.

 

[JM]

I guess the next question is, how many Baptists are in protest to Rome or do you believe Rome is in protest of us?

 

[GreenEyedLady]

At this point, I don't relly know. I think it is both ways. I think we protest them and they protest us.
The key is to get everyone outside the churches and remind them that its about a person, and not a system. That is hard to do sometimes.
GEL

 

[BjBarnett]

very interesting stuff. thanks for the replys

 

[Blackhawk]

http://www.reformedreader.org/btimline.htm

Here's an easy to scan time line of Baptist History... gives a lil reformation info.

*side note* Zwingali (an ordained Catholic Priest) was the 1st in late 1400's early 1500's, many of those who agreed w/him and those who gathered in secret to study w/ him were murdered by "the church". Dround to be exact... they were said to have "sined by water so they shall die by water". They were tied up and bricks tied to their ropes and dumped publicly into the middle of lakes.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you here but Zwingli was not a Baptist not was he part of the radical reformation. Some of his students were later called the anabaptist but he violently opposed them. Basicaly he was one of the ones who was after the Anabaptist. ( to kill them) He had Felix Manz drowned in a river which was the 1st protestant to execute another protestant for their beliefs.

The dispute between Zwingli and the Anabaptists was over believers baptism. Zwingli agreed with it and the Radical reformers believed in believer's baptism. Believer's baptism is now one of the key issues that define baptists. So Zwingli was not a baptist. I do not know if you meant to say that but that is how it came across to me.

 

[Blackhawk]

Yopu can search the internet for "The Trail of Blood" which is a brief but well written history of the Baptist church.
http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0172.htmhttp://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0172.htm

I would not pick up this text. It was written as a response to the Campbellite (church of Christ) claim that they were the one and only church. The book was to show how really we were the one and only church and how we could show that our roots go back all the way to the apostles. It is a protestant version of apostoilic succession. I really do not think that history shows that what this book argues is true.

 

[Blackhawk]

Baptists are not protestant and our church didn't come out of the reformation. We did get a voice and better organization during the reformation but neither Calvin nor Luther wanted anything to do with us.

http://www.picknowl.com.au/homepages/rlister/bibfund/baptists.htm


I'll pm you a link, I think it maybe against the rules if I post it.

SP

Actually we are protestant and we did come out of post reformation times.

There are main theories about how Baptists began.
A successinist theories
1. Organic successionist theory-
a) uses trail of blood to trace actual baptist churches from the NT to present
b) dissenters were essentiallly baptists under other names (donatist, waldenses, etc.)
c) John theBaptist origniated baptist church when he baptized jesus in jordan

problems:
a) inadequate resources
b) highly polemical
c) ignores that although dissenters had some similiar doctrines they had some very different beliefs also.
d) No contemporary historian holdsto this belief

2. Spiritual succession theory

A) basically like above except they Trace baptist FORMS throughout history
B) genuine christians but not a n unbroken chain like above
C) Baptists are latest expression of viewpoints held by dissenting groups

Critique:
a) on more solid ground than above
b) have more history behind them
c) still a history that was developed to show that we are the true church through tradition.
D) Other groups did have some very different beliefs although some were similiar

Non-succesionist theories

1 English sepratist theory-
a) first baptist church in 1609 as a logical conclusion to the english speratist movement
b) anabaptist influence was miminal before 1600
REasons:
1) early baptists denied being anabaptists
2) Baptist rejected some anabaptist distinctives: their Christology, Their view of the realtion of church and state, certain armininian teachings
3) most Baptists had been prior seperatists
4) Baptists views are logical conclusion ot speratist viwes and do not require anabaptist influence
5) Baptist went against baptists who later became anabaptists

2 Anabaptist inlfuence theory
1) Baptists did emerged through enlgish seperatism but believe that anabaptism prepared the way for the english speratists


THE LAST TWO ARE VERY SIMILIAR THEY JUST DIFFER IN HOW MUCH OF AN INLFUENCE ANABAPTISTS WERE AND WHEN THIS INLFUENCE OCCURRED.

The last two theories are the ones that are debated by historians while the first two are generally rejected.

Source: Baptist Heritage class notes. J. Spivey prof. fall 03 Southwestern Baptist theological seminary. SBC

 

[eldermike]

The Christian church (all of us) only has one true history. The problem is; there are several written versions of it. To claim one of them as true is missing an important possibility, they are most likely all wrong. How does an historian become a revisionist? He starts writing.

My answer: We don't know.