Baptism

[krissy127]

Is baptism required to be saved?

 

[Spunkn]

There's various opinions on the subject.

I say no. Baptism is something that is strongly commanded for us to do as believers, however, the act of baptism does not actually save us.

Only through faith are we saved, not by works.

One of the best examples is the thief on the cross. He was not baptized, and yet Jesus said "Today you shall be with me in Paradise."

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

Now there are verses that do talk about believing about being baptized, but the baptism is often talking about the baptism of the Holy Spirit when we receive Christ.

It's something I believe everyone should study on their own, and come to their own conclusion on though.

 

[Bible2]

Spunkn said in post 2:

Baptism is something that is strongly commanded for us to do as believers, however, the act of baptism does not actually save us.

Actually, baptism does save us, insofar as in order to be saved ultimately, believers must get water-immersion (burial) baptized into Jesus' death for our sins (Mk. 16:16, 1 Pet. 3:21, Rom. 6:3-11, Col. 2:12, Gal. 3:27, Acts 2:38, 22:16).

Spunkn said in post 2:

Only through faith are we saved, not by works.

Baptism is a kind of circumcision (Col. 2:11-13, Philip, 3:3, Rom. 2:29). Just as Abraham, who is a model for Christians, was initially saved by faith alone, prior to his circumcision (Rom. 4), so we're initially saved by faith alone (Eph. 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Rom. 4:2-5), prior to our baptism (Acts 8:36-38, Jn. 20:31). But just as Abraham was ultimately saved by his works (Jas. 2:21-24), so we'll be ultimately saved by our works (Rom. 2:6-8, Jas. 2:24, Mt. 7:21, 25:26,30, Philip. 2:12b, 3:11-14, 2 Cor. 5:9, Heb. 5:9, 6:10-12, 2 Pet. 1:10-11, Jn. 15:2a), which must include getting water-immersion (burial) baptized (Mk. 16:16, 1 Pet. 3:21, Rom. 6:3-11, Col. 2:12, Gal. 3:27, Acts 2:38, 22:16).

Spunkn said in post 2:

One of the best examples is the thief on the cross. He was not baptized, and yet Jesus said "Today you shall be with me in Paradise."

The thief on the cross could have been baptized before Lk. 23:42-43 happened, but then backslid & committed theft. Also, baptism is only a New Testament/New Covenant requirement for ultimate salvation (Mk. 16:16, 1 Pet. 3:21, Acts 2:38, 22:16, Rom. 6:3-11, Gal. 3:27, Col. 2:12), & the New Covenant wasn't put into legal effect until Jesus died (Heb. 9:16-17, Mt. 26:28). But Lk. 23:42-43 happened before Jesus died, so baptism wasn't yet a requirement for ultimate salvation. But now that Jesus' death is past, believers have to obey all his New Covenant commandments (Jn. 14:21-24) if they want to obtain ultimate salvation (Heb. 5:9, Rom. 2:6-8), including his commandment every believer get baptized (Mt. 28:19-20, Mk. 16:16, Acts 2:38), & by immersion/"burial" in the water of baptism (Rom. 6:4, Col. 2:12, cf. 1 Cor. 14:37). Also, a saved person can in the end lose his salvation if he wrongly employs his free will to commit unrepentant sin (Heb. 10:26-29, 1 Cor. 9:27, Lk. 12:45-46), which includes unrepentant sins of omission (Jas. 4:17), which would include refusing without repentance to get baptized, & by immersion.

Spunkn said in post 2:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

Amen.

But in the original Greek, the verb translated above as "should not perish" is in the subjunctive mood. This means it's referring to a conditional action. So it should be translated as "may not perish". Other, related verses show that believers ultimately retaining their salvation will be conditional on their continued belief to the end (e.g. Heb. 3:6,12,14, 6:4-8, Col. 1:23), their continued good works to the end (e.g. Rom. 2:6-8, Mt. 7:21, 25:26,30), & their continued repentance from every sin they might commit to the end (e.g. Heb. 10:26-29, Lk. 12:45-46, 1 Cor. 9:27). The way to do Christian theology isn't to base it on just what some unqualified verses say to Christians, but on what the entire Bible says to Christians (2 Tim. 3:16, Mt. 4:4). Verses applicable to Christians in one place in the Bible must be compared with (qualified by) other, related verses (also applicable to Christians) elsewhere in the Bible (Isa. 28:9-10, 1 Cor. 2:13).

Spunkn said in post 2:

Now there are verses that do talk about believing about being baptized, but the baptism is often talking about the baptism of the Holy Spirit when we receive Christ.

Regarding believers getting Holy Spirit baptized (Acts 11:15-16, 10:44-46), they usually have to ask to receive the Holy Spirit (Lk. 11:13b) baptism, for it isn't usually automatically given to them the moment they become believers. That's why Paul asked some believers: "Have ye received the Holy Spirit since ye believed?" (Acts 19:2). Believers usually receive Holy Spirit baptism through prayer accompanied by the laying on of hands, subsequent to water baptism (Acts 8:15-17, 19:5-6). Holy Spirit baptism won't result in speaking in tongues for everyone (1 Cor. 12:30), but for almost everyone, as tongues are one of the Spirit's lesser gifts (1 Cor. 12:8-11,28, 14:5). Many believers haven't yet experienced Holy Spirit baptism simply because they haven't yet asked for it, under the principle of "ye have not, because ye ask not" (Jas. 4:2b). Many believers haven't yet asked for it because they've come under the influence of mistaken teachings which say it's no longer in effect. Believers can get hands laid on them to receive Holy Spirit baptism at any Pentecostal-type congregation, or at any charismatic-type congregation, which can be of almost any denomination.

 

[Aibrean]

You're going to get a variety of different answers based on the denomination of the poster.

For me - yes it's required. No it's not absolutely necessary. It IS a command from God. We should be baptized if we are able. There may be times when it is impossible before death to be baptized (such as the thief on the cross).

Baptism is a work of God, not a work of us, which is precisely why I say it saves. It is connecting a tangible element (water) with the Word of God. It is a matter of faith (which we know is also not a result of us, but the Holy Spirit working in us).

There is no evidence (other than trying to twist Greek words) that immersion is required for baptism.

As far as the Holy Spirit goes, there is also debate on when the Holy Spirit enters a person. I personally don't believe the HS comes by laying of hands. In context, Acts 8's account of receiving the Holy Spirit was because the baptism was not done in the name of the Triune God (Father, Son, and HS).

Acts 8:16
for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Additionally, Peter doesn't mention laying of hands here...
Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

 

[theophilus40]

Is baptism required to be saved?

If you are referring to water baptism the answer is no.

When someone is saved by putting his faith in Christ he is baptized into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit.

For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.
(1 Corinthians 12:13 ESV)
​

But this is something entirely different from water baptism.

In order to be saved you need to repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus Christ. After you are saved you should be baptized in water to show publically that you are now a follower of Christ. For example, look at what happened when Peter preached the gospel to Cornelius and his family.

While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
(Acts 10:44-47 ESV)
​

The order of events is important. Peter preached the gospel to them. The Holy Spirit fell on them and they were baptized into the body of Christ; this shows they believed the message even though this isn't specifically stated. It was only after they were already saved that Peter said they needed to be baptized in water.

Here is a good place to find out more about this subject:

Is baptism necessary for salvation? What is baptismal regeneration?

 

[Harry3142]

krissy127-

It is not required for salvation, but it is required in nearly all denominations for membership. What saves us is not water, but blood. To be specific, it is through the shedding of Jesus Christ's blood that we are saved, and there is no other way for us to be cleansed of our sins, and so attain salvation.

I have been approached by church denominations who insist that water baptism must be performed or else the person is not saved, even though that person has accepted Christ's sacrifice. Those denominations have gone on to state categorically that baptism is to be seen as accomplished only when the baptism is via full immersion. Pouring water over the head of the person being baptized is seen by them as no baptism at all.

However, upon further 'grilling' of the people representing these denominations, I have come to realize that they are using baptism by full immersion as 'bait'. Those who consent to accepting baptism by full immersion as absolutely essential are soon faced with a never-ending list of Do's and Don't's which are also to be accepted as essential for that person's salvation. And the lists which I have personally seen were all designed specifically to give the leadership of that particular denomination absolute power over every facet of their members' lives.

BTW: When you permit a church which insists that you must be baptized by full immersion to baptize you, you have become a member of that church. Since many of these churches also insist that they are the only 'true church', seeing all other denominations as incurring God's wrath, there will be a flatout refusal to permit you to transfer your membership from their church to another if you should choose to do so later.

 

[Bible2]

Harry3142 said in post 6:

When you permit a church which insists that you must be baptized by full immersion to baptize you, you have become a member of that church. Since many of these churches also insist that they are the only 'true church', seeing all other denominations as incurring God's wrath, there will be a flatout refusal to permit you to transfer your membership from their church to another if you should choose to do so later.

Full immersion does not lock you into any particular congregation, or even into any denomination, for that matter. After getting immersion-baptized in one congregation, you can go and join any another congregation or any other denomination you want, any time you want, without having to get anyone's permission.

Harry3142 said in post 6:

Since many of these churches also insist that they are the only 'true church', seeing all other denominations as incurring God's wrath, there will be a flatout refusal to permit you to transfer your membership from their church to another if you should choose to do so later.

Regarding the "true church", it consists of all believers everywhere (Ephesians 4:4-6), no matter what their denomination.

Also, believers should not be identified or identify themselves after any man-made denomination (1 Corinthians 1:12-13; 1 Corinthians 3:4), but should simply be "Christians" (Acts 11:26b; 1 Peter 4:16).

 

[1watchman]

Spunkin, you are essentially right about baptism being only a testimony of identifying with Jesus Christ. It does not save a soul (as Scripture shows in all references throughout Acts and the Epistles}. It should be required for receiving of one into fellowship in a local assembly as given in the Word. One should not confuse John 1:33 as referring to water, but shows that by comparison Jesus Himself baptizes by the Holy Spirit ---not by water or the works of man. One can see esteemed Bible teachers on this.

 

[LilLamb219]

Is baptism required to be saved?

Why do you ask? Have you been baptized in the name of our Triune God?