Baptism of the Holy Ghost

mourningdove~ · Jul 15, 2023

We have a local AOG that has recently merged with 2 other local (non-AOG) churches.
They are starting some new kind of 'social ministry' kind of church ...
I read about in the newspaper.

And I was truly shocked at a comment reportedly made by one of THE very highest level representatives in the AOG district here, who has been involved in the development and planning of this merger.

This representative is an older man. Started out as a pastor. And His response to the merger, and this new 'kind' of church:

"The churches we were trained to pastor no longer exist."

(Very sad ... )

mourningdove~ · Jul 15, 2023

retired firefighter said:
we're now attending an non denominational church that's located here in Eastern Okla. their back ground is AOG, the Pastor preached a couple sermons on the fruits of the Holy Ghost they do still call to the alter for praying, healing, ect. they still anoint will oil and practice the laying on of hands , praying in the spirit is evident , but haven't witness the gift of prophecy , but i'm sure i just have not been in there long enough

Your church sounds pretty good!
Is good to hear that praying at the altar is still happening some places ... and the gifts are in operation, too.

retired firefighter · Jul 15, 2023

Hermeneutico said:
1. I embrace apostolic succession. Actual authority was to be passed down through the centuries through the laying on of hands.
2. I teach that the Lord's Supper, according to Scripture, is to be taken weekly and that Scripture should be believed "This is my body. This is my blood." I do not have to explain it, but I do have to believe what Scripture explicitly says.
3. I teach that there are true Apostles today and that Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, and Teachers are to work in union with them.
4. I teach that salvation is a lifelong process, not a mere event.
5. I teach that we begin our relationship with the Holy Spirit at regeneration. Still, one does not receive the GIft/Indwelling of the Holy Spirit until one receives Him - like Pentecost.
6. I believe in the doctrines of worship surrounding the Tabernacle of David.
7. I do not believe in the modern novel rapture teaching that only began in the 1800s.
8. I believe in Ancestral Sin, not Original Sin.
9. I do not believe tithing is commanded for New Testament believers.
10. I believe that the Lord's Supper includes natural wine. Grape juice was introduced in popular form through Dr. Welsh, which helped sell his new product. It is not Biblical. For 1700 years, EVERY church had real alcoholic wine until Welsh's invention.
11. ALL of the Gifts of the Spirit are to be active and used within the Local Church and beyond.
12. We not only believe in general prophecy from the congregation, but we also believe in moderated personal prophecy for receiving Gifts of the Spirit and direction confirmation by those who are called Prophets. (1 Timothy 4:14-16;1 Timothy 1:18-19; Acts 13:1-4; Acts 21; Romans 1:11).
13. We believe that healing is in the atonement but not fully guaranteed while on this earth.

Those are just a few...

sounds interesting

Hermeneutico · Jul 15, 2023

retired firefighter said:
sounds interesting

I am having discussions with many pastors who like the idea of the Convergence of the three streams yet are still conservative and embrace all the gifts. I am excited to see what God is going to do.

retired firefighter · Jul 15, 2023

Hermeneutico said:
When I visit an AOC church these days (I am not saying all our like this...), I barely see any tongue speaking, let alone any gift of the Holy Spirit, such as prophecy. It is quite fascinating.

the church board now days directs the pastor vs the pastor being first lead by the spirit , the preacher and music leader must set a tone to which the Holy Spirit will move, i think music has a big part in this, many have gone to projected screens , modern music thats more about feeling good an entertainment based , the Preacher must be lead by what the Spirit leads him to preach about, and lastly if there's no alter call , no laying on of hands offered and worried about closing the service at a noon , it's hard to get the Holy spirit involved in the service

Hermeneutico · Jul 15, 2023

retired firefighter said:
sounds interesting

I am having discussions with many pastors who like the idea of the Convergence of the three streams yet are still conservative and embrace all the gifts. I am excited to see what God is going to do.

retired firefighter said:
the church board now days directs the pastor vs the pastor being first lead by the spirit , the preacher and music leader must set a tone to which the Holy Spirit will move, i think music has a big part in this, many have gone to projected screens , modern music thats more about feeling good an entertainment based , the Preacher must be lead by what the Spirit leads him to preach about, and lastly if there's no alter call , no laying on of hands offered and worried about closing the service at a noon , it's hard to get the Holy spirit involved in the service

Sad

retired firefighter · Jul 15, 2023

mourningdove~ said:
Your church sounds pretty good!
Is good to hear that praying at the altar is still happening some places ... and the gifts are in operation, too.

we've just been going a short time , haven't been on Sunday night yet , hopefully Sunday night we'll go , my wife works nights as an RN in a hospital and she's new to going to an Pentecostal church, i find the Holy Ghost for some reason moves more at night when there are less visitors

Blade · Jul 16, 2023

retired firefighter said:
why have US churches gotten away from salvation, baptism in water then baptism of the Holy Ghost ?

The enemy.. doubt. See say in Africa.. they already know the supernatural is real...and there are things that happen...oh.. most just here would not believe. So when it comes to God.. who is the real thing.. so wonderful powerful praise GOD GLORY TO JESUS.

Here US and the like its like the song playing right now "Wake the Dead" Petra. "For to long you been costing along. You think Salvation is the end of it all. (The fields are ready but the workers few)"

I again can only speak on what I know. No one can talk about something they have not experienced. This is great site yet for spiritual things like this I would never seek ask here. Its so hard here not to listen see feel from so many other believers. The classic "you believe that because you were taught that or you Church told you". A strong truth yet there are many that just believe the word of God for what He said.

That's all I would say is read what He said not what I say or anyone else. What would happen if you just read what He said and didn't look around you or at anyone else you just no matter how bright the day or dark the night you just stood on what He said knowing He will do what He said.

As a preacher said back in the 50's? Something like "there are many different doctrines here but not on the one that matters most". That Jesus came in the flesh. They all believed in Jesus so they saw the sweet sweet holy Spirit move.

But I think..oh man I am awful with words.. I think we can say it with one word "doubt". We look around and "so and so didn't get..". We just don't see the flip side huh. Well all those that WERE touched healed set free. Those that had desires for the same flesh? yeah set free to never have that same desire again or blind got new eyes.. shaking for well over 20years in JESUS NAME.. all the shaking stopped in moment.. My grandpa was so happy. Or no job.. someone out of no where offeres them a job.. on and on and on. GOD IS GOOD and loves to give give and give. Were more blessed if we give. Anyway.. FAITH. Get around those that believe.. and watch what changes

rocknanchor · Jul 17, 2023

retired firefighter said:
are Pentecostal Churches today teaching Baptism of the Holy Spirit, do we see gifts of the Holy Spirit evident in todays Church ?

My old AOG still does teach it. Gifts? Does reaching, , thereby transforming lives count, discipleship and serving others, spreading the Gospel, discovering sundry needs that ultimately are supplied?

Hopefully confident you are not espousing that spirit of ‘seeking after a sign’ witness, but to tap God’s blessing and how His servants have to their credit ‘signs that follow’. Though I am ever present with Pentecostals in spirit, I do not presently worship under a titled ‘Pentecostal’ church. However, in this forum there are notices in both positive and negative terms to this concern, ,

To quote Pentecostal ‘rockytopva’,

“I have no problem with Pentecostal Holiness doctrine, , But... The Spirit simply is not there anymore.”

To quote a few from Pentecostal Minister ‘quietbloke’

“The Baptism in the Holy Spirit gave me the power I needed in the Holy Spirit to be a more powerful witness for Christ!

“AOG GB. Denise Curgenvey is a Lancashire lass, , Denise is a powerful preacher with a prophetic edge, ,”

'Village Chief Experiences Supernatural Healing After Octopus Attack' by Sam Paris AGWM Missionary to Vanuatu'.

retired firefighter · Jul 17, 2023

rocknanchor said:
My old AOG still does teach it. Gifts? Does reaching, , thereby transforming lives count, discipleship and serving others, spreading the Gospel, discovering sundry needs that ultimately are supplied?

Hopefully confident you are not espousing that spirit of ‘seeking after a sign’ witness, but to tap God’s blessing and how His servants have to their credit ‘signs that follow’. Though I am ever present with Pentecostals in spirit, I do not presently worship under a titled ‘Pentecostal’ church. However, in this forum there are notices in both positive and negative terms to this concern, ,

To quote Pentecostal ‘rockytopva’,

“I have no problem with Pentecostal Holiness doctrine, , But... The Spirit simply is not there anymore.”

To quote a few from Pentecostal Minister ‘quietbloke’

“The Baptism in the Holy Spirit gave me the power I needed in the Holy Spirit to be a more powerful witness for Christ!

“AOG GB. Denise Curgenvey is a Lancashire lass, , Denise is a powerful preacher with a prophetic edge, ,”

'Village Chief Experiences Supernatural Healing After Octopus Attack' by Sam Paris AGWM Missionary to Vanuatu'.

the Holy Spirit is alive and well, has not withdrawn from this earth, we have to seek , open our hearts through prayer, if church boards and pastors will get back to basics , quit this now movement and simply invite the Holy Spirit to take the service over and lead the church , the movement and fruits of the Spirit can move . it requires prayer ,fasting and reading the word

Blade · Jul 20, 2023

retired firefighter said:
the Holy Spirit is alive and well, has not withdrawn from this earth, we have to seek , open our hearts through prayer, if church boards and pastors will get back to basics , quit this now movement and simply invite the Holy Spirit to take the service over and lead the church , the movement and fruits of the Spirit can move . it requires prayer ,fasting and reading the word

I don't think most of us truly understand how easy it is to grieve him. One of many reasons I say "sweet sweet holy Spirit". I use to pray for along time take not your holy Spirit from me. He had to correct me. Well He said He will never leave you.. He will be with you forever. It is very easy to grieve him.

Just the word does not even begin to say it. "ause great distress to (someone)." Thats the world definition. A part of something I pray for so many years now

"“Don’t use foul or abusive language. Let everything you say be good and helpful, so that your words will be an encouragement to those who hear them. And do not grieve God’s Holy Spirit by the way you live…. Get rid of all bitterness, rage, anger, harsh words, and slander, as well as all types of malicious behavior. Instead, be kind to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God through Christ has forgiven you.”"

NBB · Aug 12, 2023

@Hermeneutico
"We believe that healing is in the atonement but not fully guaranteed while on this earth."
I believe this is our fault, God is our healer, it says, Jesus bought us healing. I'm a bit tired of people saying 'if its God will'.
it doesn't say 'i am you healer, sometimes maybe'.

Its the same with the gifts, the gifts are there, it our fault we don't see more of them.

Hermeneutico · Aug 13, 2023

NBB said:
@Hermeneutico
"We believe that healing is in the atonement but not fully guaranteed while on this earth."
I believe this is our fault, God is our healer, it says, Jesus bought us healing. I'm a bit tired of people saying 'if its God will'.
it doesn't say 'i am you healer, sometimes maybe'.

Its the same with the gifts, the gifts are there, it our fault we don't see more of them.

I understand your perspective, but Scripture does not teach it is an absolute guarantee while on this earth. In fact, a careful reading of Scripture demonstrates that Jesus didnt heal everyone near Him while on earth.

1. Total healing while on earth would mean that no one would ever experience death. This fact itself proves man is not totally healed yet.
2. Most faith healers are not totally healed. They either wear some kind of glasses or contacts. In fact, doesn't Kenneth Copeland wear a pace-maker? I know he wears glasses.
3. In my 50 years in Pentecostal ministry, I've known God to heal unbelievers.
4. I've never known any person to be free from a flu or cold - no matter how much their faith.
5. As far as we can tell from the Scriptures, Trophimus wasn't healed at the hands of Paul, and Timothy wasn't being healed from his many ailments.

Does God heal, yes, but He doesn't always heal, but all believers will eventually be totally healed - at the resurrection.

rocknanchor · Aug 13, 2023

Hermeneutico said:
I understand your perspective, but Scripture does not teach it is an absolute guarantee while on this earth. In fact, a careful reading of Scripture demonstrates that Jesus didnt heal everyone near Him while on earth.

1. Total healing while on earth would mean that no one would ever experience death. This fact itself proves man is not totally healed yet.
2. Most faith healers are not totally healed. They either wear some kind of glasses or contacts. In fact, doesn't Kenneth Copeland wear a pace-maker? I know he wears glasses.
3. In my 50 years in Pentecostal ministry, I've known God to heal unbelievers.
4. I've never known any person to be free from a flu or cold - no matter how much their faith.
5. As far as we can tell from the Scriptures, Trophimus wasn't healed at the hands of Paul, and Timothy wasn't being healed from his many ailments.

Does God heal, yes, but He doesn't always heal, but all believers will eventually be totally healed - at the resurrection.

Quite right! If I may, shouldn't every textual occurrance that went un-answered, be founded on the text's condition: 'without doubting'?

Hermeneutico · Aug 13, 2023

rocknanchor said:
Quite right! If I may, shouldn't every textual occurrance that went un-answered, be founded on the text's condition: 'without doubting'?

Even if one doubts or has zero faith, one may still be healed.

rocknanchor · Aug 13, 2023

Hermeneutico said:
Even if one doubts or has zero faith, one may still be healed.

Agreed and understood although won't commonly be the ones promoting 'textual occurrance' whom I was inferring.

Hermeneutico · Aug 13, 2023

rocknanchor said:
Agreed and understood although won't commonly be the ones promoting 'textual occurrance' whom I was inferring.

Yes

Richard T · Sep 26, 2023

retired firefighter said:
are Pentecostal Churches today teaching Baptism of the Holy Spirit, do we see gifts of the Holy Spirit evident in todays Church ?

Here is an old headline that I have heard is still trending for AOG. Assemblies of God Surge, But Speaking in Tongues Slumps
This denomination is gaining converts nicely, but the percentages for those receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit are far less. Am outpouring could reverse this but in some congregations those that speak in tongues are a small minority. I'm not hearing much teaching on this subject nor do I recall any altar calls to receive the baptism like I might have in older days.

rocknanchor · Sep 27, 2023

Richard T said:
Here is an old headline that I have heard is still trending for AOG. Assemblies of God Surge, But Speaking in Tongues Slumps
This denomination is gaining converts nicely, but the percentages for those receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit are far less. Am outpouring could reverse this but in some congregations those that speak in tongues are a small minority. I'm not hearing much teaching on this subject nor do I recall any altar calls to receive the baptism like I might have in older days.

Why cite George Soros backed Christianity Today? Besides, it is available as subscriber content only. Brush up, Source

There is near universal concern over all major denoms that a move has gravitated south to South America, Africa, and even to Asia and Pentecostalism has risen within them. This has happened largely in those underdeveloped regions. Care to post your objection or approval as to why?

Mine? 'Jealousy'

Richard T · Sep 27, 2023

rocknanchor said:
Why cite George Soros backed Christianity Today? Besides, it is available as subscriber content only. Brush up, Source

There is near universal concern over all major denoms that a move has gravitated south to South America, Africa, and even to Asia and Pentecostalism has risen within them. This has happened largely in those underdeveloped regions. Care to post your objection or approval as to why?

Sorry I don't know ties to Soros. I heard other similar figures directly from AOG but I could not find a published source. Christianity Today is dated, yes, but the trend is intact. Sorry the article is behind a paywall, but the first paragraph is the only evidence I can offer. Still, better than none. I do not know the break down between continents either. I would suspect that North America is the laggard.

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