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1 Peter 3:21 NLT - "And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ."Chapter and verse please.
Quoting from a revision of the Living Bible....really? Gives "cherry picking" a new definition.1 Peter 3:21 NLT - "And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
Quoting from a revision of the Living Bible....really? Gives "cherry picking" a new definition.
Wow....such emotionalism. I am out of this conversation.If I can't quote from the NLT Bible, then I'd better not speak about the Bible at all. The NLT is vastly more accurate than my own attempts at understanding the truth. Yet you are above the NLT translation? Your understanding surpasses the understanding of the scholars who wrote it?
That's spectacular. All hail to "Ain't Zwinglian.
Why do you need chapter and verse for that?Chapter and verse please.
I am not asking what the early church believed or didn't believe. This is a sola scriptura question: Where in Scripture do new believers give a short testimony or a declaration of faith before baptized. Please chapter and verse.In the early church, new believers gave a short testimony, or declaration of faith, before they were baptised.
Yes, Yes, Yes....another baptism is a "symbol" interpretation. The Greek word for symbol is symbolia and the word is not found in the NT or the LXX. I don't find baptism as symbolic of anything nor does Scripture say it is symbolic.it is symbolic of dying to Christ
Beautiful . . .Why do you need chapter and verse for that?
The word Baptism means - or is from a word which means - submerge.
Romans 6 talks of us dying with Christ and being raised to new life. When a person is submerged in water, it is symbolic of dying to Christ. When a person is brought back up out of the water, it is symbolic of rising to new life.
Jews did not baptise. A baby boy was circumcised and made part of the covenant that God made with Abraham. In Bible times, when people sinned, they offered the sacrifices laid down by law. Unclean Gentiles who converted to Judaism were baptised, but I don't think anyone else was.
John the Baptist preached baptism in response to repentance; not "repent and offer the appropriate sacrifice", but "repent and be baptised."
Jesus told the 12 to go into all nations, make disciples and baptise, Matthew 28:19-20, and the Apostles taught that baptism should accompany repentance. In the early church, new believers gave a short testimony, or declaration of faith, before they were baptised.
And again, why do you need chapter and verse?I am not asking what the early church believed or didn't believe. This is a sola scriptura question: Where in Scripture do new believers give a short testimony or a declaration of faith before baptized. Please chapter and verse.
Romans 6:3 says that we were baptised into Christ, baptised into his death. The Greek word for baptise means "to plunge, dip, purify"; it is used in that verse.Yes, Yes, Yes....another baptism is a "symbol" interpretation. The Greek word for symbol is symbolia and the word is not found in the NT or the LXX. I don't find baptism as symbolic of anything nor does Scripture say it is symbolic.
Romans 6:3 says that we were baptised into Christ, baptised into his death. The Greek word for baptise means "to plunge, dip, purify"; it is used in that verse.
Rom 6:4 says that we were buried with Christ, through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised, we too may have new life.
True, it doesn't say "this is symbolism" - but how else would you understand those verses?
Were you literally plunged into Christ's death, literally buried and then literally dug up again and raised to new life? I doubt it. So can you not see that being lowered, or plunged, into the waters of baptism then being brought up again out of the waters is an image of dying to sin and being raised to new life?
Since when is repentance some kind of act for the audience?As I said, people were baptised by John after confessing their sins, Matthew 3:6, Mark 1:4. The Apostles also taught "repent and be baptised". So it seems pretty clear that baptism - which wasn't something which Jews normally did - was to accompany repentance. It was a new thing in the NT - Jews offered sacrifices to atone for their sin.
The first people to be baptised would not have confessed their faith in Jesus the Messiah; they didn't yet know him. But they confessed their sins and admitted they had sinned against God.
Luke 8:10 NLT - "He replied, "You are permitted to understand the secrets of the Kingdom of God. But I use parables to teach the others so that the Scriptures might be fulfilled: 'When they look, they won't really see. When they hear, they won't understand."And again, why do you need chapter and verse?
I never said it was - you seem to have read that into it.Since when is repentance some kind of act for the audience?
I didn't say it was.Jesus was not buried in the ground and immersed with dirt. The women in the morning didn’t go to the tomb of Jesus with shovels, picks, and a wheel barrow to dig up the body of Jesus. This is not a picture of immersion baptism. When credo’s state this is a picture of immersion baptism, they are confusing modern burial practices with ancient burial practices. “To bury” refers to any process in which we place human remains in their final resting place.
Of course baptism is a work. A work that is intended to manifest one's faith.Baptism is a Work:
According to the Bible, I believe it implies that baptism is a work.
I say this because there are certain Christian groups who claim that water baptism is faith and not a work (Or a work of faith).
In other words, there are certain Christian groups who claim that water baptism is what unites you to Christ but it is not a work in order to not contradict Ephesians 2:8-9.
Thus, these Christian groups will say they believe in “faith + works“ but they are redefining “water baptism” in an unbiblical way by saying it is faith (when in reality it is a work or work of faith). While water baptism is a part of the faith, it would not be a work that is any less of a work from other works of faith.
First, we see circumcision is a type of baptism.
A believer would first be circumcised in the Old Testament to show they were a Jew.
In the New Covenant, we believers are baptized to let others know we identify with the burial of Christ and we are Christian.
Colossians 2:11-12 says,
"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."So in this above passage we see the spiritual inward working God does upon our heart when we are born again spiritually by God and it is paralleled by the outward rituals of circumcision and baptism. Note: We do not have to be circumcised. That is OT. But the point here is that God’s Word compares these two rituals as describing what happens to our inward man when we accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and the gospel message.
Second, according to Galatians 2, and Romans 4, it implies that circumcision is a work.
Galatians 2:3-4
“But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:”As we can see above here, Paul is expressing his concern about those who are wrongfully trying to compel believers to be circumcised. We learn more about this in Acts 15 in that certain Jews were trying to get Gentile Christians to be circumcised in order to be saved (See: Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5, and Acts 15:24).
Then Paul starts eventually starts to talk about how we cannot be justified by the works of the Law in verses 15-16.
Galatians 2:15-16
“We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."So Galatians 2 teaches that circumcision is a part of the works of the Law (Which is a ceremony we do not have to keep).
Romans 5:2 says we have access to God’s grace through faith.
Taking this verse into account, Romans 4:3-5 would then be saying that we are saved initially by faith or a belief alone.
“For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
Romans 4:1-6 it mentions the word “works” 4 times. It talks about how we are not justified by works in this process of being initially saved.
The point is made in Romans 4:9-12 using circumcision involving Abraham. Abraham first believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness before he was circumcised. This circumcision is a work because Paul was just talking about how we are not justified by works in Romans 4:1-6.
So the point here is that if the Bible is teaching that circumcision is a work (and I believe I have demonstrated that above), then baptism is also a work because one can clearly see the connection between circumcision and baptism between the two different covenants.
Three, some try to get around this and say that baptism is a work of God and it is not a work you do. Well, it is a ritual that does involve some effort on your part.
You do have to…
#1. Find the right body of faithful believers (Which is difficult in these last days).#2. Ask if they will baptize you and set a date to do so.#3. Show up on the date and go down into the body of water.#4. Relax your body so that they can hold you so as to dunk.#5. Hold your breathe as they submerge you.#6. Change out your clothes because they are wet.Other believers who baptize you, have to…
#1. Agree to baptize you.#2. Try to gather other witnesses if possible.#3. Find a proper and legal place to baptize.#4. Show up at the date.#5. Go down into the water with you.#6. Help to hold you so as to submerge you in the water,#7. Declare that they are baptizing you in the name of Jesus (Which is the embodiment of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost - Colossians 2:9).#8. Change clothes because they are wet.
Think. It is work if a swimming instructor trains somebody how to swim and or hold their breath under water.
Some say it is a work, and yet they say God declares that this work is faith and then they say other things are works and not faith.
However, words mean things in this life and God is not the author of confusion and nor does His Word contradict itself.
My position on water baptism:
Water baptism is a work of faith. Water baptism is an outward ritual that a Christian will do at some point in their life that signifies the inward change when they believe the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:-14, and they call upon the Lord Jesus (seeking forgiveness of their sins with Him) (Romans 10:9, Romans 10:13, Luke 18:9-14). Ideally, baptism happens after a person is initially saved by God’s grace through faith without works, although we do see cases in the Bible where initial faith and baptism can happen simultaneously. If possible, baptism I believe should be done after a person immediately accepts the gospel and sought forgiveness of their sins with the Lord Jesus Christ. Water baptism is not done to get initially saved and while it is required as a part of the faith, I do not believe water baptism is a salvation issue (See: 1 Peter 3:21, 1 Corinthians 1:17). Water baptism is a symbol or likeness of Christ’s death (Romans 6:5). Only the spiritual baptism in being born again will help us to crucify the affections and lusts and to live as a new person in Christ (Being raised with Him - see Colossians 2:12).
Were you literally plunged into Christ's death, literally buried and then literally dug up again and raised to new life? I doubt it.
I didn't say it was.
I didn't.If you don't think Romans 6 is a PICTURE of immersion baptism, then why did you say I would be literally dug up? (your words)
I said that there were only 2 ways of reading that passage, in my view: either it's literal statement, or an illustration/image, of what happens in baptism.Were you literally plunged into Christ's death, literally buried and then literally dug up again and raised to new life? I doubt it.
1 Peter 3:21 NLT - "And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
I didn't.
Read what I did say.
I said that there were only 2 ways of reading that passage, in my view: either it's literal statement, or an illustration/image, of what happens in baptism.
If literal, then we were actually immersed into Christ, buried with him then raised up again. If an illustration, then it means that going under the waters in baptism and being brought out again is an image of dying to sin and rising to new life.
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