Baptism for salvation?

[tonychanyt]

Ephesians 2:

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Is water baptism necessary for salvation?

Technically, no, because technically, baptism is a kind of ritualistic work. See also This water symbolizes baptism that now saves you.

Mark 16:

15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.

The great commission is the context.

16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved,

Is water baptism optional?

No, believers are commanded to be baptized. Belief and baptism go hand in hand together. Jesus commanded us to spread the good news and baptize people who believe. Looking at baptism as an outward sign of salvation accompanied by inward repentance and faith, then baptism does save.

but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Belief is the key to salvation, not baptism. It does not say:

1. He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned
2. He who is not baptized will be condemned.

When a person believes, he should be baptized as soon as possible. Belief and baptism are a tightly knit pair. If a person claims to believe but refuses to be baptized, then something is wrong with his understanding of salvation.

Does baptism save?

Baptism is an outward ritualistic work that does not save anyone. However, it is a sign of inward repentance and faith and confirms salvation. God often uses external (physical) appearance to symbolize internal (spiritual) reality.

See also

• born of the Spirit
• When should you get baptized?

 

[David Lamb]

Ephesians 2:


Is water baptism necessary for salvation?

Technically, no, because technically, baptism is a kind of ritualistic work. See also This water symbolizes baptism that now saves you.

Mark 16:


The great commission is the context.


Is water baptism optional?

No, believers are commanded to be baptized. Belief and baptism go hand in hand together. Jesus commanded us to spread the good news and baptize people who believe. Looking at baptism as an outward sign of salvation accompanied by inward repentance and faith, then baptism does save.


Belief is the key to salvation, not baptism. It does not say:

1. He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned
2. He who is not baptized will be condemned.

When a person believes, he should be baptized as soon as possible. Belief and baptism are a tightly knit pair. If a person claims to believe but refuses to be baptized, then something is wrong with his understanding of salvation.

Does baptism save?

Baptism is an outward ritualistic work that does not save anyone. However, it is a sign of inward repentance and faith and confirms salvation. God often uses external (physical) appearance to symbolize internal (spiritual) reality.

See also

• born of the Spirit
• When should you get baptized?

Thanks. Certainly in the bible we see people becoming Christians first, then being baptised, certainly not being baptized to make them Christians. Two examples are the Ethiopian eunuch and the Philippian jailer. To the first, in answer to his request to be baptized, Philip replied:

“Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."” (Ac 8:37 NKJV)

The apostles answered the jailer's question about how he could be saved:

“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” (Ac 16:31 NKJV)

Later, we are told:

“And immediately he and all his [family] were baptized. Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.” (Ac 16:33-34 NKJV)

 

[tturt]

Wondering how you define "the doctrine of baptisms" from Heb 6:2?

 

[tonychanyt]

Wondering how you define "the doctrine of baptisms from Heb 6:2?

Good question.

According to ESV, it was the instruction about washings. See What was the doctrine of baptisms in Heb 6:2?

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

“Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."” (Ac 8:37 NKJV)

Acts 8:37 is not included in many Bible translations because it is not found in the oldest and best translations of Acts. There is no attempt to cover it up, as you can find it (with an explanation) in the footnotes of most Bibles.

 

[David Lamb]

Acts 8:37 is not included in many Bible translations because it is not found in the oldest and best translations of Acts. There is no attempt to cover it up, as you can find it (with an explanation) in the footnotes of most Bibles.

If that were the only reference to faith/belief coming before baptism, that might be a problem (I say "might" because I am not an expert on textual criticism). But as I said before, there was the jailer at Philippi and his family, who believed first, and then were baptised.

 

[tturt]

Most think of only water baptism. (Not a scholar either).

Dr Derek Prince was a Greek and Latin scholar from Cambridge University and defined baptisms as immersions. Washings = immersions.

At salvation, we are cleansed by Christ's blood. "And from Jesus Christ the faithful and trustworthy Witness, the Firstborn of the dead [first to be brought back to life] and the Prince (Ruler) of the kings of the earth. To Him Who [a]ever loves us and has [b]once [for all] loosed and freed us from our sins by His own blood,' (Rev 1:5) "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which [[a]ratifies the agreement and] is [b]being poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." ( Matt 26:28) "Whom God put forward [[a]before the eyes of all] as a mercy seat and propitiation by His blood [the cleansing and life-giving sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation, to be received] through faith. This was to show God’s righteousness..." (Rom 3:25) In these examples of washing/immersions reveal spiritual truths Our sins are removed "As far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us." (Psa 103:12) "Come now, and let us reason together, says the Lord. Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be like wool." (Isa 1:18).

Becoming believers,, we are baptized by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ by believing in His death, burial, and resurrection. "Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." (Rom 10:9). We are reconciled to God (II Cor 5:18) and become sealed with The Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13, .4:30)
Also, as believers "Therefore if any person is [ingrafted] in Christ (the Messiah) he is a new creation (a new creature altogether); the old [previous moral and spiritual condition] has passed away. Behold, the fresh and new has come!" (II Cor 5:17).

(After salvation is water and Spirit baptisms/washing/immersions. Water baptism is usually by another believer. All 3 persons of the Godhead are involved in this washing as well).

So at salvation we are washed by the Holy Spirit into Jesus
then we can be washed by Jesus into the Holy Spirit

By Jesus who sends the promise of the Father (Luk 24:39) baptists us "by," "with" and "in" the Holy Spirit (The Spirit baptism) includes when the Holy Spirit comes upon us, He endures us with power (John 24:39) for service to Him, to speak boldly, be His witnesses,, and to keep His Word ((Matt 3:11; Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16; John 1:33, Acts 1:4-5, 4::29-31, 8:14-17, 11:16; Luk 24:49, Eph 5:18, Acts 4:31). So to receive this washing, we asks (Luk 11:13) and receive Him.

Plus after Pentecost, the disciples were filled. "And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost." (Acts 13:52) Some versions state "And the disciples were continually filled [throughout their souls] with joy and the Holy Spirit." AMPC, EHV, GW, ISV, Phillips, NOG, NASB
- in the Greek, because of the verb tense of "filled" in Acts 13:52, it means continous action.

 

[tonychanyt]

Dr Derek Prince was a Greek and Latin scholar from Cambridge University and defined baptisms as immersions. Washings = immersions.

See Was baptism always by immersion? and follow up there

 

[FameBright]

Acts 8:37 is not included in many Bible translations because it is not found in the oldest and best translations of Acts. There is no attempt to cover it up, as you can find it (with an explanation) in the footnotes of most Bibles.

Thank you for clarifying this. I had a friend who tried to use the same argument and for some reason couldn't find it at the time. I'm guessing it is because of what you had stated.

If that were the only reference to faith/belief coming before baptism, that might be a problem (I say "might" because I am not an expert on textual criticism). But as I said before, there was the jailer at Philippi and his family, who believed first, and then were baptised.

Thanks. Certainly in the bible we see people becoming Christians first, then being baptized, certainly not being baptized to make them Christians. Two examples are the Ethiopian eunuch and the Philippian jailer. To the first, in answer to his request to be baptized, Philip replied:

If faith/belief came before baptism then I'd probably start questioning the legitimacy of my own baptism and I assume many other Christians would too. So if I didn't have enough faith at the time i was baptized, would I need to be baptized again?

Also, If this were also the case, shouldn't Pastors make this a requirement for those waiting to be baptized?

As far as the jailer at Philippi and his family, what I got from that was baptism was still a requirement even after you believe.

In Acts 19:1-6 it sure does seem to say that repentance and baptism comes first then you go on on to believing in Jesus and be baptized by the fire and Holy Spirit.

Also, why would Catholics baptize babies?

Paul talks about baptism being an initiation in to the Christ family and the new "circumcision". Did babies have to believe before they were circumcised?

As far as becoming Christians first:
To convert to Judaism in OT days, did they convert to Judaism first before they proclaimed the faith, did the water immersion (mikvah), and then circumcised?

I hear people a lot including Pastors that say that you have to be saved first or your heart has to be in a certain condition before being baptized and I can't seem to really find anything that definitively supports that.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

As far as becoming Christians first:
To convert to Judaism in OT days, did they convert to Judaism first before they proclaimed the faith, did the water immersion (mikvah), and then circumcised?

Proselyte baptism is not found in the NT and therefore is considered extra Biblical. Not worthy of comment.

 

[FameBright]

Proselyte baptism is not found in the NT and therefore is considered extra Biblical. Not worthy of comment.

Oh ok. I would comment, but your comment just isn't worth commenting on.

 

[Grafted In]

I can tell you that I was saved a number of weeks prior to water baptism and I know that I had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit during that time. There is no doubt in my mind that He was already feeding me from His word greatly prior to water baptism.
Can someone explain this?

 

[concretecamper]

The Church HAS ALWAYS taught water Baptism is required for Salvation.

Who to believe? Some recent innovation regarding Baptism, or the long standing history of His Church?

Clement Of Rome AD 99

Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. - John 3:5

For thus hath the true prophet testified to its with an oath: `Verily I say to you, That unless a man is born again of water, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
For thus the prophet has sworn to us, saying, "Verily I say to you, Unless ye be regenerated by living water into the name of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[tonychanyt]

Did babies have to believe before they were circumcised?

Check out What is the purpose of infant baptism? and follow up there.

 

[FameBright]

The Church HAS ALWAYS taught water Baptism is required for Salvation.

Who to believe? Some recent innovation regarding Baptism, or the long standing history of His Church?

Clement Of Rome AD 99

Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. - John 3:5

For thus hath the true prophet testified to its with an oath: `Verily I say to you, That unless a man is born again of water, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
For thus the prophet has sworn to us, saying, "Verily I say to you, Unless ye be regenerated by living water into the name of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Those were exactly my thoughts. I also think that it is part of becoming a Christian. Many people argue that you become a Christian first. I was using the conversion to Judaism as an example but since someone thinks it's unworthy of comment I'll try to use another.

Let's say you wanted to join a gang. Normally, you would become initiated first then become a gang member. You don't become a gang member first before you get initiated. I'm not saying it's wrong but that's why I have a hard time believing that you would become Christian first.

 

[FameBright]

Check out What is the purpose of infant baptism? and follow up there.

I also believe that being baptized as an infant counts and meets the requirements. I seen the comment that if a child of 11 or 12 gets baptized just to please their parents then they're really just getting dunked on the water. I'm not sure I believe this. Even if you're own faith is lacking, you have the faith of others who are gathered in His name. What also makes it different is that you have witnesses that can testify to your baptism.

 

[Grafted In]

I recall being baptized as a young boy.
Meant nothing to me, but it did mean something to my mother.
I didn't get saved until age 29.

 

[concretecamper]

I can tell you that I was saved a number of weeks prior to water baptism

I recall being baptized as a young boy.
Meant nothing to me, but it did mean something to my mother.
I didn't get saved until age 29.

I'm wondering, which story is the TRUE story?

 

[Grafted In]

Both.

 

[concretecamper]

Both.

Ok, saved before water Baptism and saved after Water Baptism. You just blew you're credibility.