Baggage from Iraq

[Anomie]

Friends,
Consider the following and submit your reactions and/or opinions: I have a very dear friend and brother in Christ who is a former USMC Scout-Sniper, extraordinarily skilled in fighting and killing with small arms (e.g. handguns, rifles, machine guns, etc.). He recently returned from Iraq after spending a year and a half over there with a paramilitary organization (security outfit). A couple of weeks after his return, he contacted me so we could 'catch up' a bit. And during that conversation, he confided in me that he had killed numerous non-combatant Iraqis immediately following and incident wherein one of his teammates was shot dead by an insurgent sniper.

Since that conversation, my heart has been so heavy. I feel that my friend has the blood of innocents on his hands . . . and he is completely unpenitent. This is a man who considers himself a good Christian, too!

 

[Anti Existance]

Calling yourself a Christian is one thing, Jesus asked us to love our enemies. Im not going to judge your friend, but i can garentee you that (for the people he killed innocent or not) he is in a heap of trouble. Many 'christians' support war/guns/death sentence and killing of enemies of the 'state' if you like.

But this is not LOVE. This is not what God has intended for us.

For War only shows humanities 'unconsiousness' of Gods true will. Instead of fighting eachother we need to unite in our love for God , and love another more then our own flesh, and refuse to pick up guns, and refuse to listen to political leaders who start wars.

Because if you kill someone while calling yourself a christian, you basically get the idea of Jesus saying ' you call me Rabbi, but still you don't do what i say. kind of typical situations.

Its really frightening , and i can understand why your heart is burdened for your friend. My advice is that you just let him slide thru his life, and when bad karma hits him you need to show him love and support as best as you can. I've read some near death experience of people who didn't even commit any murder and considered themselves as 'good' people, but when they got their life reviewed by God they where already into spasms on the ground , they say the feeling is more horrible then you can ever imagine as you get plunged into a 360 angle view of all the miserable side effects you have done towards others into your life. Everything, your whole life has been recorded, and you will have to do good again , and make up for what you did to all the souls who's lives you've ruined.

So you can't even imagine the horror what you will get to see , if you have been killing people during this life


God doesn't preferably want us to listen to our political leaders(ok it depends on who it is), but to him.

But since this is so 'delicate' you need to leave this between him and God.

War is such a horrible thing *cries*

 

[Anomie]

Thank you for the sheltering words. Still, I have since the day my friend told me this horrific tale felt obligated to submit to him that he cannot possibly be in a state of grace and won't be until he repents of these atrocities.

 

[Anti Existance]

Don't force these things off from him, if he is able to kill someone, then he is spiritually worlds removed from being able to 'repent' his actions in full consiousness towards God.

This stuff is like 'glue' it will stick on him during the rest of his life, and for who knows how long in the afterlife.

Therefore just 'let him walk' , but you could talk to him that you don't feel 'comfortable' at all the he killed people. + then you can say to him, if your a christian what you think of the following parabel from Jesus.

LOVE YOUR ENEMIES,

BLESS those who curse you, DO GOOD to those you hate you, and
PRAY for those who despitefully use you, and persecute you
THAT YOU MAY BE THE CHILDREN OF YOUR FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN

And 'ask' him if he doesn't think he has violated 'gods' way, and if he says something like 'ya but the government told me to go so i went' , you could ask him, what's more important, what the government thinks or what God thinks? Don't judge him or anything , but make him think.

LOVE YOUR ENEMIES = (NOT) LOVE TO SHOOT YOUR ENEMIES.

-_-

 

[PastorMikeJ]

sigh you people know nothing of combat...don't judge him unless you have stood in his shoes....there is no flag, no apple pie and no fighting for the honor of one's country in combat..there is only those around you...getting them out in one piece..getting them home..

And if those so called innocent had warned the troops of the sniper in the area would his friend been alive today?? or were they hiding this sniper from our troops?

Don't judge this brother...pray that he has asked God for His forgiveness..and if he has then he is forgiven..and you are not worthy to judge him if God has forgiven him..

He will carry the burden of the memory of those he killed
innocent and guilty the rest of his life...I know...I know...

 

[BarbInArk]

sigh you people know nothing of combat...don't judge him unless you have stood in his shoes....there is no flag, no apple pie and no fighting for the honor of one's country in combat..there is only those around you...getting them out in one piece..getting them home..

And if those so called innocent had warned the troops of the sniper in the area would his friend been alive today?? or were they hiding this sniper from our troops?

Don't judge this brother...pray that he has asked God for His forgiveness..and if he has then he is forgiven..and you are not worthy to judge him if God has forgiven him..

He will carry the burden of the memory of those he killed
innocent and guilty the rest of his life...I know...I know...

Amen to that.

 

[3girls2dogs]

Don't force these things off from him, if he is able to kill someone, then he is spiritually worlds removed from being able to 'repent' his actions in full consiousness towards God.

This stuff is like 'glue' it will stick on him during the rest of his life, and for who knows how long in the afterlife.

Therefore just 'let him walk' , but you could talk to him that you don't feel 'comfortable' at all the he killed people. + then you can say to him, if your a christian what you think of the following parabel from Jesus.

LOVE YOUR ENEMIES,

BLESS those who curse you, DO GOOD to those you hate you, and
PRAY for those who despitefully use you, and persecute you
THAT YOU MAY BE THE CHILDREN OF YOUR FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN

And 'ask' him if he doesn't think he has violated 'gods' way, and if he says something like 'ya but the government told me to go so i went' , you could ask him, what's more important, what the government thinks or what God thinks? Don't judge him or anything , but make him think.

LOVE YOUR ENEMIES = (NOT) LOVE TO SHOOT YOUR ENEMIES.

-_-

It must be nice to be able to preach this from your nice safe home.

 

[Anomie]

It must be nice to be able to preach this from your nice safe home.

You hypocrites! You stand there in judgment of a person (me) that you know nothing about for expressing genuine concern over the actions of one of his most beloved friends. Who is judging who here?

And just before I shake the dust of this forum from my sandals, allow me to remind you that my friend was NOT operating under the auspices of ANY of the Armed Forces of the United States. Rather, he was pursuing financial gain (a tax-free, 6-figure/year salary, to be specific) with a paramilitary organization. Don't you see? The problem herein lies not with the deed itself, but with the state of mind (that of a mercenary) of the man who commited it when he commited it!

And if any of you think that a man or woman can snuff out life indiscriminantly or not and then talk about it as if those lives were tantamount to the lives of so many game animals, then you're sick!

If any of you have ever been forced to kill for any reason, rejoice in the profound psychological and spiritual anguish it causes, because this is affirmation that your soul belongs to Christ!

Peace to you all for what life there is left for you. For my part, I will NOT be bothered with you again!

 

[3girls2dogs]

You hypocrites! You stand there in judgment of a person (me) that you know nothing about for expressing genuine concern over the actions of one of his most beloved friends. Who is judging who here?

And just before I shake the dust of this forum from my sandals, allow me to remind you that my friend was NOT operating under the auspices of ANY of the Armed Forces of the United States. Rather, he was pursuing financial gain (a tax-free, 6-figure/year salary, to be specific) with a paramilitary organization. Don't you see? The problem herein lies not with the deed itself, but with the state of mind (that of a mercenary) of the man who commited it when he commited it!

And if any of you think that a man or woman can snuff out life indiscriminantly or not and then talk about it as if those lives were tantamount to the lives of so many game animals, then you're sick!

If any of you have ever been forced to kill for any reason, rejoice in the profound psychological and spiritual anguish it causes, because this is affirmation that your soul belongs to Christ!

Peace to you all for what life there is left for you. For my part, I will NOT be bothered with you again!

I was not responding to your post, I was responding to the post I had quoted. My husband is a Marine and was over in Afghanistan, so I do not think that you can justifiably call me a hypocrite. I feel for your friend and I think that your concern for him is admirable. I just didn't like the poster that I quoted and was responding to jumping to judgement on his motives or Christianity.

I am sorry that you got so upset over my one line, but I think that perhaps you are being a touch too defensive, as my post wasn't even directed at you.

 

[CCe]

Thank you for your response!!! Freedom is not free after all...someone, this man and many others will pay the cost until they die! I agree, don't be too quick to judge just pray for all our men and women who are defending us.

sigh you people know nothing of combat...don't judge him unless you have stood in his shoes....there is no flag, no apple pie and no fighting for the honor of one's country in combat..there is only those around you...getting them out in one piece..getting them home..

And if those so called innocent had warned the troops of the sniper in the area would his friend been alive today?? or were they hiding this sniper from our troops?

Don't judge this brother...pray that he has asked God for His forgiveness..and if he has then he is forgiven..and you are not worthy to judge him if God has forgiven him..

He will carry the burden of the memory of those he killed
innocent and guilty the rest of his life...I know...I know...

 

[Anti Existance]

It must be nice to be able to preach this from your nice safe home.

That's a nice compelling answer from someone who preaches that to me from her nice safe home.

Ask yourself how many people did Jesus kill?

Zero, so we should follow in his example.

 

[3girls2dogs]

That's a nice compelling answer from someone who preaches that to me from her nice safe home.

Ask yourself how many people did Jesus kill?

Zero, so we should follow in his example.

Didn't preach a thing. Just made an observation.

 

[Anti Existance]

Didn't preach a thing. Just made an observation.

if you ask me.

 

[Boss_BlueAngels]

Give the man a break AE. I know it's the same old issue with you... but you know what? Jesus also didn't surf the internet, or drive cars, or wear the kinds of clothes we have today. People do horrible things with all of those... according to your logic the next thing everybody should do is start walking around in robes, and revert back to a third world nation. I see you're still on the interenet.

I'm sorry, but you really need to give that ever so sensitive finger you judge everyone with a rest! Neither you, nor I can even possibly fathom what this guy went through to do this, and will go through the rest of his life! Even when people are at their lowest (dispite the fact the actual person isn't even here reading this) you find it necessary to kick them while they're down.

You know what? That is what not showing love is all about right there. Someone who truely wants to convey Jesus' love would continue to accept the person and help ease their feelings.

Oh yeah, and this is what you said in your first post,

Im not going to judge your friend, but i can garentee you that (for the people he killed innocent or not) he is in a heap of trouble.

well, I'm not sure if you actually read it or not... but you just did judge. And even in the same sentence!!

Everything, your whole life has been recorded, and you will have to do good again , and make up for what you did to all the souls who's lives you've ruined.

And where did you pull that out? Um, isn't that what Jesus died for? So that the stupid things we've done in life can be FORGIVEN?? I thought I remembered reading that somewhere anyway...


And I won't even comment on what the original poster said. lol

 

[montenague]

When we can justify the murder of innocents with all sorts of drivel, then we truly know we are in the end time.

We are in a time not unlike that of Noah. where the majority live in sin and use the name of the almighty in vain.

All this talk of combat experience and all that crap means nothing.
tell us to put ourselves in the shoes of the marines?!!

what about the innocents whose home were invaded?!

im sorry but the troops invaded their home.

 

[Anti Existance]

Give the man a break AE. I know it's the same old issue with you... but you know what? Jesus also didn't surf the internet, or drive cars, or wear the kinds of clothes we have today. People do horrible things with all of those... according to your logic the next thing everybody should do is start walking around in robes, and revert back to a third world nation. I see you're still on the interenet.

Sounds like you got it right.

I'm sorry, but you really need to give that ever so sensitive finger you judge everyone with a rest! Neither you, nor I can even possibly fathom what this guy went through to do this, and will go through the rest of his life! Even when people are at their lowest (dispite the fact the actual person isn't even here reading this) you find it necessary to kick them while they're down.

You know what? That is what not showing love is all about right there. Someone who truely wants to convey Jesus' love would continue to accept the person and help ease their feelings.

Are people helped with what they need to hear or with what they want to hear? I rather shovle a heel in someone's mouth , then to be a weak healer and make stinking wounds. Im here to say what is needed to be said.

Oh yeah, and this is what you said in your first post,


well, I'm not sure if you actually read it or not... but you just did judge. And even in the same sentence!!

FYI that is not judgement at all, im just pointing out what Jesus has pointed out. It DOES inquire a different kind of lifestyle that commits ourselves to God you know, not especially towards a life that we want to live.

And where did you pull that out? Um, isn't that what Jesus died for? So that the stupid things we've done in life can be FORGIVEN?? I thought I remembered reading that somewhere anyway...


And I won't even comment on what the original poster said. lol

It doesn't work that 'convenient' as you describe it. You have to break off the hell that you have build up for others.

 

[TheDerek]

*Mod Hat On*​

Please keep the posts on topic

*Mod Hat Off*​

 

[DarkCloud]

Dear Brothers in Christ,

Let us not judge ye unless we wish to be judged the same way. Who are we to judge why God commanded that soldier to kill those civilians? Maybe they really were not civilians, but terrorists of Satan, the fallen angel of heaven (see Paradise Lost by John Milton). Everything is done for a reason and part of God's, blessed be him, great plan. I think we need to be more open minded and not condemn one of our own. We Christians need to stick together and help each other out even in hard times. Peace of Christ be with all.

 

[montenague]

Dear Brothers in Christ,

Let us not judge ye unless we wish to be judged the same way. Who are we to judge why God commanded that soldier to kill those civilians? Maybe they really were not civilians, but terrorists of Satan, the fallen angel of heaven (see Paradise Lost by John Milton). Everything is done for a reason and part of God's, blessed be him, great plan. I think we need to be more open minded and not condemn one of our own. We Christians need to stick together and help each other out even in hard times. Peace of Christ be with all.

Thou Shalt not kill.

God, in my opinion would not order a command against his own Commandment.
it doesnt make any sense.

You cannot do wrong in order to do right.

[FONT=Verdana, arial, sans-serif]"Satan and his agents always masquerade as angels of light
and only the foolish are fooled"
-- St. Paul[/FONT]

 

[DarkCloud]

Thou Shalt not kill.

God, in my opinion would not order a command against his own Commandment.
it doesnt make any sense.

in your opinion.

You don't know what God thinks or does. He did flood his entire creation and kill all but two, did he not? He did kill the innocent first born sons of Egypt, did he not? God is above his own commandments and can break them, and if he was working through someone to stop worse things, then who are we to judge the mind of God. I wasn't saying it was certain that God commanded him to kill those people, but it is not certain he did not either.