Backup plan

[blackribbon]

I have a friendship with a man (widower) for something like 4 years now. I am the person who talked him off the wall several times during that first year after his wife died. There was a very short period towards the beginning of the friendship that we toyed with idea of dating...but it just wasn't a good fit...and we both recognized it. Loneliness isn't enough.

I really consider myself his friend more than him being my friend. Most of the friendship was one way...me helping him out and he never offered to help me. He would even stand me & my kids up when I'd try to plan fun things for our families to do together (not turned us down...but rather at the last minute after my kids killed themselves cleaning the house (because they like his kids a lot), he would change his mind and be a no-show). I stopped inviting them because it wasn't healthy for my kids.

He only calls once in a blue moon now. And I don't think I'd be underestimating if I said something like 10 times in 2012...often no calls for months at a time. (I don't call him because there is no reason to).

So he calls last night and we talked for hours. Yes, he was drinking so I know to give him a little leeway as he talks. As a friend, I just accept him "as is". We are two very different people and his priorities are very different from mine. Much of our conversations are him taunting me and my choices...things like that fact that I shop at places like Walmart which he consider "evil". (Yeah, he is a bit out there). I mostly find this stuff funny because as friends, it doesn't matter if he likes where I shop or not.

Well, as this conversation goes on...he announces in response to something that we disagree on (what's new?) that he would never marry me. So I laugh and say that I'd never marry him either. Oh no, conversation changed. At first he accused me of lying...then wanted to know why. I said because he is not a Christian. Totally freaked him out. He spent another good hour trying to tell me why I should marry him and why my Christian beliefs shouldn't matter if he was a good guy. ??? In there, he also pointed out all my other faults ... and wouldn't let the subject die.

As his wife, he would "protect me from the world". Inside, I was only thinking "but who would protect me from his hurtful words and his neglect of even a basic friendship".

I guess I must have been his "backup plan" if he didn't find anyone else to marry. Sigh. I didn't even get around to tell him that I'd never settle for being a "backup plan" wife even if he was a Christian...kind of seems mute.

The sad thing is that the few things he does like about me are the result of me being a Christian...the unconditional acceptance of him, for one...

I'm not exactly sure why I am posting this beyond just needing to say it somewhere he doesn't also read. If you can pray for him, maybe God is working on him. He claims that he is an atheist but really he isn't, maybe an agnostic but really he is just angry at God because he perceives his wife's death as something God did to him (and you can't be angry at a God who doesn't exist).

Anyway, his hurtful words hurt a lot today. Sad to say, that I'd not even consider him marriage material if he became a Christian without a lot of other changes done by God...but he doesn't need to hear any of this from me.

Only good enough to be considered a "backup plan"....not so great for the ego. I'd be so much better with "valued friend" which is what I thought I was. <sigh> I wonder what God is preparing me for. There has to be a reason for this because I can't handle too much more loss in my life. I don't have room for emotional breakdowns right now. School starts full speed ahead on Monday.

 

[exitstageright]

I have a friendship with a man (widower) for something like 4 years now. I am the person who talked him off the wall several times during that first year after his wife died. There was a very short period towards the beginning of the friendship that we toyed with idea of dating...but it just wasn't a good fit...and we both recognized it. Loneliness isn't enough.

I really consider myself his friend more than him being my friend. Most of the friendship was one way...me helping him out and he never offered to help me. He would even stand me & my kids up when I'd try to plan fun things for our families to do together (not turned us down...but rather at the last minute after my kids killed themselves cleaning the house (because they like his kids a lot), he would change his mind and be a no-show). I stopped inviting them because it wasn't healthy for my kids.

He only calls once in a blue moon now. And I don't think I'd be underestimating if I said something like 10 times in 2012...often no calls for months at a time. (I don't call him because there is no reason to).

So he calls last night and we talked for hours. Yes, he was drinking so I know to give him a little leeway as he talks. As a friend, I just accept him "as is". We are two very different people and his priorities are very different from mine. Much of our conversations are him taunting me and my choices...things like that fact that I shop at places like Walmart which he consider "evil". (Yeah, he is a bit out there). I mostly find this stuff funny because as friends, it doesn't matter if he likes where I shop or not.

Well, as this conversation goes on...he announces in response to something that we disagree on (what's new?) that he would never marry me. So I laugh and say that I'd never marry him either. Oh no, conversation changed. At first he accused me of lying...then wanted to know why. I said because he is not a Christian. Totally freaked him out. He spent another good hour trying to tell me why I should marry him and why my Christian beliefs shouldn't matter if he was a good guy. ??? In there, he also pointed out all my other faults ... and wouldn't let the subject die.

As his wife, he would "protect me from the world". Inside, I was only thinking "but who would protect me from his hurtful words and his neglect of even a basic friendship".

I guess I must have been his "backup plan" if he didn't find anyone else to marry. Sigh. I didn't even get around to tell him that I'd never settle for being a "backup plan" wife even if he was a Christian...kind of seems mute.

The sad thing is that the few things he does like about me are the result of me being a Christian...the unconditional acceptance of him, for one...

I'm not exactly sure why I am posting this beyond just needing to say it somewhere he doesn't also read. If you can pray for him, maybe God is working on him. He claims that he is an atheist but really he isn't, maybe an agnostic but really he is just angry at God because he perceives his wife's death as something God did to him (and you can't be angry at a God who doesn't exist).

Anyway, his hurtful words hurt a lot today. Sad to say, that I'd not even consider him marriage material if he became a Christian without a lot of other changes done by God...but he doesn't need to hear any of this from me.

Only good enough to be considered a "backup plan"....not so great for the ego. I'd be so much better with "valued friend" which is what I thought I was. <sigh> I wonder what God is preparing me for. There has to be a reason for this because I can't handle too much more loss in my life. I don't have room for emotional breakdowns right now. School starts full speed ahead on Monday.

Sorry to hear that you have to go through this. I may be wrong,but some people hurt other people because they themselves are hurting. They feel better by hurting other people. I am praying for you.

 

[Life2Christ]

Don't worry...by the time the sun comes up tomorrow you will be so over his drunken musings.

 

[blackribbon]

I'm not so sure...some things that were said can't be unsaid. Forgiven, yes...but they will always be there. I'm guessing that I may never hear from him again. I don't think he was drunk enough not to remember.

 

[Life2Christ]

I'm not so sure...some things that were said can't be unsaid. Forgiven, yes...but they will always be there. I'm guessing that I may never hear from him again. I don't think he was drunk enough not to remember.

Bah! Rejected but look at the source.

 

[exitstageright]

I'm not so sure...some things that were said can't be unsaid. Forgiven, yes...but they will always be there. I'm guessing that I may never hear from him again. I don't think he was drunk enough not to remember.

That is one of the reasons that I never drank alcohol. I want to take responsibility for everything I do say and do. By being a non-drinker,I thought that would make me "a good catch".

 

[Doctor Strangelove]

Blackribbon, I am sorry you are having a rough time. Maybe he knows he has things missing in his life (spiritually and from what you described I think he lacks maturity). So he is compensating by criticizing you. There were people in my life who barely had their act together and they were mean to me because I was more together than they were. At least that is how I understood their behavior. So I told myself I was better than them and that helped me not to feel too hurt. Maybe not the most Christian attitude. The fact that someone who lacks character (IMO) is being hateful to you just shows that you are a person of character. I pray you will have peace and feel energized going back to school and that you will find positive people. And don't take this the wrong way but

 

[blackribbon]

Alcohol is an issue with someone I want to have a relationship with. I will tolerate it in a friendship. So, yes Exit, alcohol-free is a plus for anyone who is not looking for a drinking buddy.

Funny thing is that I wasn't rejected...and if he listened to me, he wasn't either. My choice was not based on anything about him but rather about me and my faith...and I didn't ask him to change. I'm hoping when he sobered up, he will eventually become his self-focused self and get over it. Most of his critizism about me are things that I am okay with and for most people aren't negatives...the couple that hurt were also true but he could have been a little more tactful about (and I think he realized it at the moment). In friendship situation, they shouldn't have mattered or been an issue and should have gone unsaid. I'm not stupid. I know my flaws.

I am feeling better. Just "talking" about it helped. Thanks for your words of encouragement and I really would value prayers for him. He needs God more than anyone else I know.

 

[Doctor Strangelove]

I think men who are verbally abusive have a high potential to also be physically abusive.

 

[iambren]

" unconditional acceptance"

Ahhh, the mantra of the codependent.

Mean drunk, PASS. Do not invest any more of your life with this man. You owe neither him or God anything else....move on.

 

[blackribbon]

Unconditional acceptance...

The mantra of a Christian.

I am not dating him or even living my life around him...and instead have stepped away from letting him harm anything in my life. I had no reason to believe that last night's phone call was anything beyond him being bored and a general "catch up" on life.

He is a FRIEND not an investment....I never saw him as anything but that. However, I do not believe anybody is a "throw away" person.

I resent even the suggestion of being co-dependent on anyone other than Christ. There is nothing remotely co-dependent in my life. If I have any flaws, they lean more toward not allowing people to help me and trying to do too much alone. Are you having that bad of a night that trashing me actually makes you feel better?

 

[dayhiker]

I'm not an expert on codependency. But it seems to me that one of the main aspects is the person covers up the problems of the addict. They shield them from the consequences of the actions they actions and words.

I don't see black doing any of that.

 

[MorkandMindy]

He wants to reject you and not have you reject him

It's all down to wanting you to believe he is better than you

it's about him feeling he is better than you

your use at that point was just to boost his ego


Unfortunately that is a common way of making people feel in some countries such as the USA, that there is a pecking order, that people can be ranked from best to worse like by IQ or some other made up parameter. The overall plan is to make people work harder to climb the ladder, so it is something the owners of companies want the schools to initiate and train people to do.

Although it gets more work out of people it does have a nasty side effect called 'narcissism'.

 

[blackribbon]

M&M,

I think you are fairly close to the reality of it. He doesn't want me however, he does recognized that talking to me always makes him feel better. Even his backward way of wanting me was only about him. LOL. He missed the fact that although I pet his damaged ego (always honest), it did not mean I wanted to be with him and that really caught him off guard. He is rather narcissist. However, I knew that from the beginning.

Today, I feel much better. I don't normally give him the power to hurt me but I think the conversation went too late and I became a bit vulnerable in my exhaustion. Up to the point where it turned sour, it actually was one of the best conversations we have had in a long time.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

In my experience, usually when people say mean things about you, to you, it is to make themselves feel better by pointing out your flaws. He may have fantasized that you DID want to be in a relationship with him and when you said you wouldn't marry him, in his mind, you said he wasn't "good" enough. So by pointing out all your flaws, he gets you back, so to speak.
It IS funny sometimes that people can hurt us even when we think they can't. And alot of times we are more vulnerable than we like to admit. I know I am, especially as a widow.

 

[blackribbon]

Thank you for letting me mentally work this out somewhere. Sun is out today. I've had time to patch my emotional bruises. If he called today, I could talk to him like the conversation never happened. I realized that for the first time, our relationship really is very much like the "therapeutic" type relationship nurses have with their patients. I am thinking that I might just totally turn it into that in my mind. It is a one way friendship anyway. I can help him by being there to listen without letting him into the details of my life...and staying more more emotionally separated.

I sit here and wonder if his wife's death really has traumatized him to the point where he needs professional help (that he will never go get) or if he maybe was a little bit this way even when she was alive. I guess I'll never know but the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle of the two extremes.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

I think that is a smart approach you are considering. Like you said, it has been a one sided friendship anyway, so no harm no foul going forward. I also think you might be right about him being this way (at least somewhat) when he still had his wife here.

 

[dayhiker]

I watched a documentary, Beyond Belief, last night about two ladies who were pregnant on 9-11 both their husbands were one of the planes.

Since they were widows they start raising money to help widows in Afghanistan. The phrase they like to use was ya they had some post traumatic stress but what they were doing was post traumatic growth. Now that is a much better way to look at life.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

I watched a documentary, Beyond Belief, last night about two ladies who were pregnant on 9-11 both their husbands were one of the planes.

Since they were widows they start raising money to help widows in Afghanistan. The phrase they like to use was ya they had some post traumatic stress but what they were doing was post traumatic growth. Now that is a much better way to look at life.

Wow, that's cool! It's so much better to have a positive attitude than a negative one, IMO.

 

[blackribbon]

I watched a documentary, Beyond Belief, last night about two ladies who were pregnant on 9-11 both their husbands were one of the planes.

Since they were widows they start raising money to help widows in Afghanistan. The phrase they like to use was ya they had some post traumatic stress but what they were doing was post traumatic growth. Now that is a much better way to look at life.

12 years post death makes it easier to say things like that. No matter how you word it, losing your husband sucks...and there is no "positive" spin to it.

That would be the equivalent of a diabetic saying that he was just "insulin challenged"...it is still the same disease and needs the same treatment. PTSD is a biological illness caused by the body's brain chemistry going out of balanced as the result of extreme stress. This is like "shock" is a medical condition and not mind over matter. It sounds like these wives were able to heal from the PTSD and they learned how to put meaning in their lives again.