• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Historicist Only Babylon the Great

Jerryhuerta

Historicist
Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2018
1,111
141
Tucson
Visit site
✟284,049.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No doubt, Protestantism led to the secularization of society. However, few note the pernicious, harmful ramifications of the paradigm shift in Protestantism today. Our work (Thy Kingdom Come: Re-evaluating the Historicist’s Interpretation of the Revelation) documents numerous sources in support of our thesis. In addition to our sources, Dr. Steve Turley comments on the pernicious effects of secularism in his book, President Trump and Our Post-Secular Future: How the 2016 Election Signals the Dawning of a Conservative Nationalist Age,

“Scholars have long recognized that secularization is rooted in the notion of modernity. Modernity is comprised of the philosophical commitment to scientific rationalism as the sole objective mechanism for political, economic, and cultural management. Rooted in such rationalism, modernity sees all pre-modern societies, particularly those governed by religious commitments, as inherently irrational, and thus asserts itself as the one true political, economic, and cultural meaning system for all nations and peoples. In the twentieth-century, the West has proclaimed liberal democracy as the ultimate political system, the Soviet East proclaimed communism as the ultimate economic system, and Italy and Germany declared fascism as the ultimate cultural meaning system.”

Here we have support for our thesis that secularization fostered a form of liberal authoritarianism in the West and such oppressive regimes as communism and fascism.

In The Quarterly Journal of Economics, November 2018, under the article, Religious Competition and Reallocation: The Political Economy of Secularization in the Protestant Reformation, by Davide Cantoni, Jeremiah Dittmar, and Noam Yuchtman, we read,

“religious competition shifts political markets where religious authorities provide legitimacy to rulers in exchange for control over resources”

The authors’ thesis conveys that the Protestants consorted with the kings of the earth to favor secular projects instead of religious. In essence, they had intercourse with the kings of the earth to take away the church’s influence in society. By any rational account, this fulfills what John states about mystery Babylon,

“Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.” (Revelation 17:1-2)

The article continues,

“Graduates of Protestant universities increasingly took secular, especially administrative, occupations. Protestant university students increasingly studied secular subjects, especially degrees that prepared students for public sector jobs, rather than church sector specific theology. Second, it affected the sectoral composition of fixed investment.”

In other words, the dissident Protestants sifted society away from church sector to public sector occupations. This shift enhanced the state’s ability to develop nationality, to increase its wealth, and expand its markets, which inevitably lead to the illustration of the rider of the white horse that “went forth conquering and to conquer.” This shift took peace from the earth as the Protestant nations fought over the world’s resources in their colonization of other dominions, depicted by the rider of the red horse. Their machinations in prices of goods and services led to surpluses and famines, as illustrated by the rider of the black horse. In due course, their economic upheaves in distant colonies led to great hardships for the indigenous, illustrated by the pale horse rider.
 

dqhall

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2015
7,547
4,172
Florida
Visit site
✟811,723.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
No doubt, Protestantism led to the secularization of society. However, few note the pernicious, harmful ramifications of the paradigm shift in Protestantism today. Our work (Thy Kingdom Come: Re-evaluating the Historicist’s Interpretation of the Revelation) documents numerous sources in support of our thesis. In addition to our sources, Dr. Steve Turley comments on the pernicious effects of secularism in his book, President Trump and Our Post-Secular Future: How the 2016 Election Signals the Dawning of a Conservative Nationalist Age,

“Scholars have long recognized that secularization is rooted in the notion of modernity. Modernity is comprised of the philosophical commitment to scientific rationalism as the sole objective mechanism for political, economic, and cultural management. Rooted in such rationalism, modernity sees all pre-modern societies, particularly those governed by religious commitments, as inherently irrational, and thus asserts itself as the one true political, economic, and cultural meaning system for all nations and peoples. In the twentieth-century, the West has proclaimed liberal democracy as the ultimate political system, the Soviet East proclaimed communism as the ultimate economic system, and Italy and Germany declared fascism as the ultimate cultural meaning system.”

Here we have support for our thesis that secularization fostered a form of liberal authoritarianism in the West and such oppressive regimes as communism and fascism.

In The Quarterly Journal of Economics, November 2018, under the article, Religious Competition and Reallocation: The Political Economy of Secularization in the Protestant Reformation, by Davide Cantoni, Jeremiah Dittmar, and Noam Yuchtman, we read,

“religious competition shifts political markets where religious authorities provide legitimacy to rulers in exchange for control over resources”

The authors’ thesis conveys that the Protestants consorted with the kings of the earth to favor secular projects instead of religious. In essence, they had intercourse with the kings of the earth to take away the church’s influence in society. By any rational account, this fulfills what John states about mystery Babylon,

“Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.” (Revelation 17:1-2)

The article continues,

“Graduates of Protestant universities increasingly took secular, especially administrative, occupations. Protestant university students increasingly studied secular subjects, especially degrees that prepared students for public sector jobs, rather than church sector specific theology. Second, it affected the sectoral composition of fixed investment.”

In other words, the dissident Protestants sifted society away from church sector to public sector occupations. This shift enhanced the state’s ability to develop nationality, to increase its wealth, and expand its markets, which inevitably lead to the illustration of the rider of the white horse that “went forth conquering and to conquer.” This shift took peace from the earth as the Protestant nations fought over the world’s resources in their colonization of other dominions, depicted by the rider of the red horse. Their machinations in prices of goods and services led to surpluses and famines, as illustrated by the rider of the black horse. In due course, their economic upheaves in distant colonies led to great hardships for the indigenous, illustrated by the pale horse rider.
The priests of the RCC could not exist long without donations from those in secular occupations. Not everyone can collect tithes and preach a few hours a week while employing a secular domestic servant to do their household chores like some parish priests do.

A shift away from Bible fundamentalism is an explanation for secularization. The Christian clergy asked the founders of the United States of America to tax people religious dues to guarantee their churches’ income. The writers of the Constitution asked for separation of church and state, but granted freedom of religion. In early times Bibles were rare. People went to church to try to hear the Gospels being read. The early Catholic Church read the scriptures in Latin to those who were English speaking. A few Protestants risked their lives to translate the Bible into English. Today I have a free Bible app on my iPad. I may go to church to hear a preacher read a few verses, attempt some definitions, sing a few hymns, pray and go home. I attended two outdoor services during the pandemic. The people were not talking to each other after the services. The next week I stayed home and read.
 
Upvote 0

Valletta

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2020
12,383
5,890
Minnesota
✟330,577.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
The priests of the RCC could not exist long without donations from those in secular occupations. Not everyone can collect tithes and preach a few hours a week while employing a secular domestic servant to do their household chores like some parish priests do.

A shift away from Bible fundamentalism is an explanation for secularization. The Christian clergy asked the founders of the United States of America to tax people religious dues to guarantee their churches’ income. The writers of the Constitution asked for separation of church and state, but granted freedom of religion. In early times Bibles were rare. People went to church to try to hear the Gospels being read. The early Catholic Church read the scriptures in Latin to those who were English speaking. A few Protestants risked their lives to translate the Bible into English. Today I have a free Bible app on my iPad. I may go to church to hear a preacher read a few verses, attempt some definitions, sing a few hymns, pray and go home. I attended two outdoor services during the pandemic. The people were not talking to each other after the services. The next week I stayed home and read.
Priests have an exhausting job for minimal pay. Tithing is a Protestant practice. I don't know much about our new priest , but my previous pastor was an M.I.T. graduate who gave up a job in the nuclear power industry to become a priest. Besides the basic three hour prayers for priests I saw him on a number of occasions praying in the evening. He presided at daily mass, weddings, funerals, spent time hearing confessions, organized events to raise money for repairs to the church, chaired various groups, that does not leave a lot of time to visit the sick and dying.
 
Upvote 0

dqhall

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2015
7,547
4,172
Florida
Visit site
✟811,723.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Priests have an exhausting job for minimal pay. Tithing is a Protestant practice. I don't know much about our new priest , but my previous pastor was an M.I.T. graduate who gave up a job in the nuclear power industry to become a priest. Besides the basic three hour prayers for priests I saw him on a number of occasions praying in the evening. He presided at daily mass, weddings, funerals, spent time hearing confessions, organized events to raise money for repairs to the church, chaired various groups, that does not leave a lot of time to visit the sick and dying.
My mother is Catholic. She felt compelled to donate to the church. Her priest lived in an expensive house maintained by the church. Mom befriended the retired Catholic housekeeper who cleaned the priest’s house. The housekeeper had a very small social security check. The church inherited all sorts of property and funds. Some gave more than ten percent, others none at all. Some Catholic workers live an austere lifestyle. Cardinals have higher rank and more benefits than a monk living in a dormitory. I visited a monastery in NY. It was a mansion along the Hudson River as big as a castle. One of the monks did groundskeeping. Others had chores as well. They ran a temporary rehabilitation program for homeless found on the streets of NYC. It is a blessing if a drunk or addict finds Christ and repents. They also allowed people backpacking the Appalachian Trail to stay one night. I can not curse them for allowing me to stay a night, use the shower, wash my laundry and eat a meal or two.
 
Upvote 0

Jerryhuerta

Historicist
Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2018
1,111
141
Tucson
Visit site
✟284,049.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I don't know what any of the responses have to do with my post. And I don't even think the responses are from historicists. I'll ask, dqhall and Valletta, are you historicists? If not, I would appreciate your refraining from posting on this thread. I can report infractions to the rules that only historicists can respond to my post.
 
Upvote 0

dqhall

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2015
7,547
4,172
Florida
Visit site
✟811,723.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I don't know what any of the responses have to do with my post. And I don't even think the responses are from historicists. I'll ask, dqhall and Valletta, are you historicists? If not, I would appreciate your refraining from posting on this thread. I can report infractions to the rules that only historicists can respond to my post.
historicism
[ hi-stawr-uh-siz-uhm, -stor- ]
noun
a theory that history is determined by immutable laws and not by human agency.
a theory that all cultural phenomena are historically determined and that historians must study each period without imposing any personal or absolute value system.
a profound or excessive respect for historical institutions, as laws or traditions.
a search for laws of historical evolution that would explain and predict historical phenomena.

dictionary.com
 
Upvote 0

Jerryhuerta

Historicist
Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2018
1,111
141
Tucson
Visit site
✟284,049.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
historicism
[ hi-stawr-uh-siz-uhm, -stor- ]
noun
a theory that history is determined by immutable laws and not by human agency.
a theory that all cultural phenomena are historically determined and that historians must study each period without imposing any personal or absolute value system.
a profound or excessive respect for historical institutions, as laws or traditions.
a search for laws of historical evolution that would explain and predict historical phenomena.

dictionary.com
Obviously, you don't grasp what Biblical historicism represents. The object of the qualification of these threads is taken from a Biblical perspective, not a humanistic one. Please educate yourself on Christian Historicism before you post again.

"In Christian eschatology, Historicism is a method of interpretation of biblical prophecies which associates symbols with historical persons, nations or events. The main primary texts of interest to Christian historicists include apocalyptic literature, such as the Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation. It sees the prophecies of Daniel as being fulfilled throughout history, extending from the past through the present to the future. It is sometimes called the continuous historical view.... The 19th century was a significant watershed in the history of prophetic thought. While the historicist paradigm, together with its pre- or postmillennialism, the day-year principle, and the view of the papal antichrist, was dominant in English Protestant scholarship during much of the period from the Reformation to the middle of the 19th century (and continues to find expression in some groups today), it now was not the only one." Historicism (Christianity) - Wikipedia
 
Upvote 0