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Babylon and Jerusalem.

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aragorn

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There's a poem and hymn by a man I consider a prophet of this age. William Blake.

And did those feet in ancient time walk upon England's mountains green.
And was the Holy Lamb of God, on England's pleasant pastures seen.
And did the countenance divine shine forth upon those clouded hills.
And was Jerusalem builded here, Among those dark satanic mills.

Bring me my bow of burning gold
Bring me my arrows of desire,
Bring me my spear O clouds unfold
Bring me my chariot of fire.

I shall not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.

Old Jerusalem is as fallen as Babylon the Great and ancient Rome, as prophecied by Jesus, in the gospel of Matthew, chapter 10, I believe. But Babylon, or Rome continue in their attributes in new places with new names.

New Jerusalem is a city of the imagination. It is a way of being, as is Babylon. So not forgetting Jerusalem means not forgetting that it is your struggle as a Christian to help build the Kingdom of God. (as we pray in the Lord's prayer, that the kingdom of God will come on earth,)

"Jerusalem is builded as a city that is at unity in itself."
Which sounds most unlike the city in Israel, divided into many quarters and argued over by many religions.

Onto Babylon. Here's what we know about Babylon.
Babylon was a great city, her merchandise was of gold and silver, of precious stones of pearls and fine linen. Of purple, silk, and scarlet; All manner vessels of ivory, all manner vessels of most precious wood; Of brass, iron, and marble, cinnamon, odours and ointment. Of frankincense, wine, and oil, fine flour, wheat, sheep, horse, beasts, chariots, Slaves, And the Souls of Men.

So Babylon is identified as a commercial centre that trades everything, to whom profit is more important than people.
This is its essence. By the time Revelation was written, Old Babylon was long gone, but Rome now was the commercial centre of the world. Of course, if you openly wrote of Rome as the enemy, they were likely to crucify you, so you used the code word Babylon, which would be understood by anyone who knew the Old Testament, to mean Rome.
Rome itself is long gone, "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword." But it continues in essence. The foremost military power of the world, the ruler of the world, the trading centre of the world, awash with money, trading in everything, even the souls of men.

"O daughter of Babylon, who -ought- to be destroyed. Happy shall he be that taketh thy children and dasheth them against a stone. For with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down. And shall be found no more at all."

"Now the Kings of the earth Lament, and the merchants of the earth, weep and wail, and rend their raiment. They cry aloud, Alas, that great City, In One Hour, Is Her Judgement Come."
 

Mounts

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Good thoughts, and it won't happen until Christ's glorious return and the prophecy of Revelation be fulfilled.

"And he [and angel] carried me [John the apostle] away in the Spirit to a great and hight mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God." (Revelation 21:10,11a).

And it continues to descibe the beauty: Revelation 21:9-27!
 
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aragorn

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What if Christ has already returned and the churches that profess to believe in him failed to recognised him. Maybe, though I hope there will be, there is no blinding moment when the power of evil is overthrown, merely the possibility now of us creating the second coming by creating the kingdom of God ourselves.

Or to look at it another way, if Christ returns as an empowered judge, and finds that the planet we have created over the last two thousand years, is as sick and twisted as it now is, and that those who profess faith in him, have actually connived to create hell on earth for the many, will he not say "to hell with you all," and press delete, rather than save.
 
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Mounts

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What if Christ has already returned and the churches that profess to believe in him failed to recognised him.


That can't be because much Revelation prophecy hasn't taken place yet. Not only that, but when He returns everyone will see Him comming in a cloud of fury and all will be judged--everyone will know when Christ returns. Plus many of Paul's episltes tell us not to be deceived when someone says Christ has come, because it will be a very clear sight when He returns that all creation will see.

Or to look at it another way, if Christ returns as an empowered judge, and finds that the planet we have created over the last two thousand years, is as sick and twisted as it now is...will he not say "to hell with you all,"

I'm not sure if you understand God in all His power. God already knows the world's current twisted condition--He talks about it throughout all of scripture. God isn't some distant Force that checks up on us every couple thousand years. Or do you not understand that Jesus Christ is Lord Almighty God? Also, My favorite title for God is the God Who Remembers: Malachi 3:16-18. God remembers those who fear His name; He won't send everyone to hell! He send His only Son to save those He loves!

Do you accept the Bible as the authoritative word of God? If so, read it. :D
I'm not trying to be offensive, it's just, you're saying very Bible-contradictory things, and I believe you have much to understand about our All-Powerful, Loving God. Another great title is the God of Comforts. If you know Him in His glory then you're mind will be comforted, and that comes from devoted and heart-inspired Bible study, which only God can put in your heart.
 
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aragorn

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Mounts said:
[/font]

He send His only Son to save those He loves![/font]

Do you accept the Bible as the authoritative word of God? If so, read it. :D
I'm not trying to be offensive, it's just, you're saying very Bible-contradictory things, and I believe you have much to understand about our All-Powerful, Loving God. Another great title is the God of Comforts. If you know Him in His glory then you're mind will be comforted, and that comes from devoted and heart-inspired Bible study, which only God can put in your heart.


Actually, I do accept the Bible as the authoritative word of God, but because I do, I don't. You see, the Gospels have the final say in the interpretation of the Bible. And the greatest Gospel, the gospel of John, opens " In the beginning there was the Word and the word was with God and the word was God. The same ...And the Word became Flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth..."

So on account of the gospel I accept Jesus the Christ as the authoritative Word of God. Which should be good enough for a biblical christian.

Worship of a book rather than the living Jesus is idolatry. The book was not begotten of the father before all worlds. If there is a last judgement, for which I hope and pray, then Jesus may say to many who call themselves christian.

"You never knew me as a being, you selectively worshipped dead letters, not the spirit." I don't mean to be offensive, and I don't mean that this is a true description of you. I don't know enough about you currently. Thanks for your reply which contains more that I would like to discuss, but it seems to me that I cannot say anything further anymore until the question of what and who is authoritative here is decided.

"The letter kills, but the spirit gives life."
 
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