Awesome Reminders

[Inkachu]

This was my morning devotional, and it really spoke volumes to me. I see a lot of people here in the Advice section who just torture themselves endlessly over fearing God, fearing punishment, being wracked with guilt, etc.

If you're dealing with that today, you need to read this!

A church deacon once confessed a horrible sin in a social media site. After giving a description of what he’d done, the man commented, “I know there’s a price to pay for this sin now. And that price is death.”

Not only was his heart broken over what he had done; he also knew that the effect on his friends and family would be devastating. And yet, overshadowing his remorse was fear. He had become afraid of God, believing that the sovereign Lord of the universe was now “out to get him."

What would you say to this believer? Does his statement reflect an appropriate view of God’s response to sin?

It’s true that Romans 6:23 clearly teaches that “the wages of sin is death”; however, this sorrowful young man had overlooked the all-important second half of the verse: “but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” If our Father gives us a gift, we can trust that He will never take it away; it becomes ours to keep—that’s what a gift is. We did nothing to deserve it, so we can do nothing to lose it. It all rests on God’s initiative.

Moreover, a greater theological principle is at work here. If the believer’s sin after salvation could require death—or any form of punishment—then Jesus’ sacrifice was insufficient. However, the Bible tells us that Jesus’ death was wholly sufficient and a once-for-all payment of mankind’s sin debt (Heb. 10:10).

Either Jesus’ blood does cover our sins, or it doesn’t. There’s no middle ground. The Holy Spirit, Christ’s words, and biblical testimony clearly assert that it does.​

 

[Thunder Peel]

There are some good things in there but God can still discipline us even as Christians. There is a price for sin and sometimes those sins involve God's discipline or silence in order to deal with them.

I think fearing God too much is better than not fearing Him at all. Too many believers live whatever kind of lives they want and never stop to think about the consequences or whether God would approve of what they do. At least if you're scared you're more likely to make wise decisions and think before you do something. Fear can be a great motivator when used properly, though I do agree that too much fear can be crippling. I can attest to that personally.

 

[Inkachu]

But discipline is not synonymous with punishment... at least not in all cases Discipline is done to correct, to guide back onto the right path; punishment is any form of unpleasant consequence as a direct result of something; whether it 'corrects' the behavior or not isn't always important. Or as someone put it very succinctly "discipline is about teaching, punishment is about suffering".

The point of the devotional wasn't that God spares us discipline when we do wrong. Rather, it was saying that we cannot justify ourselves through punishment for our sins, we can't "pay" for them, they're already paid for And you're right that reverent fear of God is a good thing (it's "the beginning of wisdom" per Proverbs). But as you said, crippling fear is NOT from God ("God has not given us a spirit of fear"). The fear of the Lord (reverent awe and respect), and just flat-out, immobilizing terror, are not the same thing at all. What I see so much here on CF is the 2nd kind, unfortunately. People beg for reassurance over and over and over that God is real, God cares, God doesn't hate them, God loves them, God isn't angry with them, they have hope, etc. They talk about their mistakes and sins and bad choices endlessly, and just cannot grasp the concept of GRACE it seems. It's heartbreaking. That's what I was trying to address with this thread. Yes, we need forgiveness. Yes, we need grace and mercy. But you cannot PUNISH yourself to the point that God says "Ok, great, that's enough, I forgive you now!" It's already DONE. As the devotional said (which is from Charles Stanley, just FTR)... if you could endure enough punishment to satisfy God's wrath for your actions, Jesus' death on the cross would be meaningless and unnecessary. He either paid for your sins or He didn't.

 

[Thunder Peel]

But discipline is not synonymous with punishment... at least not in all cases Discipline is done to correct, to guide back onto the right path; punishment is any form of unpleasant consequence as a direct result of something; whether it 'corrects' the behavior or not isn't always important. Or as someone put it very succinctly "discipline is about teaching, punishment is about suffering".

The point of the devotional wasn't that God spares us discipline when we do wrong. Rather, it was saying that we cannot justify ourselves through punishment for our sins, we can't "pay" for them, they're already paid for And you're right that reverent fear of God is a good thing (it's "the beginning of wisdom" per Proverbs). But as you said, crippling fear is NOT from God ("God has not given us a spirit of fear"). The fear of the Lord (reverent awe and respect), and just flat-out, immobilizing terror, are not the same thing at all. What I see so much here on CF is the 2nd kind, unfortunately. People beg for reassurance over and over and over that God is real, God cares, God doesn't hate them, God loves them, God isn't angry with them, they have hope, etc. They talk about their mistakes and sins and bad choices endlessly, and just cannot grasp the concept of GRACE it seems. It's heartbreaking. That's what I was trying to address with this thread. Yes, we need forgiveness. Yes, we need grace and mercy. But you cannot PUNISH yourself to the point that God says "Ok, great, that's enough, I forgive you now!" It's already DONE. As the devotional said (which is from Charles Stanley, just FTR)... if you could endure enough punishment to satisfy God's wrath for your actions, Jesus' death on the cross would be meaningless and unnecessary. He either paid for your sins or He didn't.

True. I can relate to those people because my own walk with God is this way, with a constant fear of punishment or negative events if I take a wrong step. I can't help them since I'm there myself but I do feel sorry for them because I know exactly what it's like.

 

[YellowRoses01]

Thanks for the heads-up! This has happened to me many a time, the crippling fear of being in the wrong, of messing up, simply not being worthy of being His child. For one thing, sometimes when you hear a pastor's sermon, read someone's take on how Christians are to live, etc., it can come off as you need to be truly perfect in your Christian walk for the Lord to have fellowship with you.

I have cried thinking who am I to think He'd want anything to do with me. Then through my self-pitying haze Psalm 46:10 comes into thought. "Be still and know that I am God." I get reminded of all the times He has fellowshipped with me, answered my questions, comforted me, etc., etc., etc., and I realize, sometimes sheeplishly, that the fellowshipping isn't going to stop. He's there, has been and always will be. I know in the future I will have times again of I'm just a mess how could He care? But I can be secure in the knowledge that He'll always bring me back around again.

 

[Thunder Peel]

The issue, at least in my life, is the lack of failure in Christian circles. I haven't really known any believers who failed or didn't quickly get back on their feet. It can be hard to feel truly saved or as if God's looking out for you when everyone else never seems to encounter the same problems.

 

[johenah1633]

AMEN! It's similar to one thinking they need both their works and Jesus' works for salvation. What Jesus did forever covers all sin and sickness. To think one's works was necessary to recieve salvation would be similar to telling Jesus that what he has already done was not enough.



Eph 2:8-9

"For it is by grace you have been saved, not by works, so that no man may boast. For it is the gift of God"

 

[johenah1633]

That's a good point. Chances are if they don't admit to having struggles they are likely decieving themselves. God has given us a helper, not perfection or moral superiority.

 

[trentlogain2]

there's a saying that I think applies here. it goes something like this.."the consequences of our sin are incalculable, inevitable, and entirely up to God."

was this guy going to die for whatever he did? probably not but i'd rather have a healthy dose of fearing God rather than the contrary.

 

[AppleJackzO]

Awesome timing with this. For the past few days I've been feeling like I'm failing in everything and that God doesn't like me anymore

 

[johenah1633]

You might fail alot (I do too!), yet don't ever ever let yourself believe God doesn't like you. He doesn't offer conditional love like mankind does, but shows us what true unconditional love is. "You're worth more than rubies that you can bet it, not because i said, but because God said it."

~joe justiz

 

[trentlogain2]

someone once said that people who sin and have an attitude of repentance or godly sorrow then they need to be shown grace. for the others who are comfortable in
their sin, the judgment of God.

what do you think about this?