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Carlos Vigil said:backley said:I believe that down through the centuries, THE ONE TRUE FAITH that Jesus enjoyed, that He transfered to His Apostles, which THEY OBEYED, and transfered to other TRUSTWORTHY MEN, has given and does still give Apostolic Aithority to all who obey Him, to this very day.
If APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY has ended, then there is NO AUTHORITY on earth
and we can all do as we please. any body can start any thing they dream up
and give it a "dignified name" employ cheer leaders to drum up recruits and get large numbers of poor gillible souls and teach every wind of doctrine.But
God will say "DEPART FROM ME YOU WORKERS OF INIQUITY, I NEVER KNEW YOU."
I think you are confused about the nature of apostleship. Paul was an apostle by virtue of his having seen the risen Christ, received a personal commission from Him and demonstrated that calling by the fruits of his works. Apostleship was more than an office but a calling to which not only Paul and the Twelve were called (Romans 16:7, Acts 14:3-4 etc). The calling may not always have been dramatic as Paul's but it will always have involved the work of the Holy Spirit. I do not believe that it was ever intended by the Twelve and Paul that they could pass on Apostleship through a function of their position.
ChrisB said:I think you are confused about the nature of apostleship. Paul was an apostle by virtue of his having seen the risen Christ, received a personal commission from Him and demonstrated that calling by the fruits of his works. Apostleship was more than an office but a calling to which not only Paul and the Twelve were called (Romans 16:7, Acts 14:3-4 etc). The calling may not always have been dramatic as Paul's but it will always have involved the work of the Holy Spirit. I do not believe that it was ever intended by the Twelve and Paul that they could pass on Apostleship through a function of their position.
Carlos Vigil said:Hi ChrisB,
It could be that i am confused, I am GROPING fot the TRUTH (just as i hope you are) I only brought in St.Paul to clarify that acts 1:21,22 by itself cannot be "the criteria" for Apostolic Succession.
I agree with you that Paul is an Apostle in virtue of CHRIST'S CALLING and as down thru the centuries,Christ has CALLED many Apostles, and Like Paul did,they also did; the called always submitted TO THE ESTABLISHED LEADERSHIP of Apostles ,compared notes and Agreed IN ONE ACCORD
You say you DO NOT BELIEVE that it was ever intended;...
Then what was Christ's intention ..""and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven."...??? and what authority was St. Paul operating under when he said to Timothy;..."which you have heard from me..., ENTRUST these to loyal men who will be able to disciple others..." (2Tim. 2:2
What authority is working thru Paul in Acts 19:6 ???...Acts 13:10 ???
Acts 2:13 ?,...3:16"on the basis of FAITH IN HIS NAME"...do you believe
that FAITH means;w/your whole heart, w/your whole soul, w/your whole mind & w/your whole strength? and do you believe that IN HIS NAME means;using HIS NAME, operating IN HIS CHARACTER, and submitting under
HIS AUTHORITY?...do you believe that, or do you believe in another way?
Can you see APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY at work ;at the council at Jerusalem in Acts 15:2,6,12,22 ??? so, I can see this still goes ONNNNNN! same Authority,different times ,different folks, but THE SAME SPIRIT.
God bless ALLof you
In the Love of Christ
and for the Love of Truth
Carlos
Basically, this verse of scripture has nothing to do with binding Satan and such12volt_man said:I'm a little embarrassed to admit this but when I was a new Christian, I got sucked into the WoF movement and was taught that this passage referred to binding and casting out demons.
I used to go around all the time saying "I bind the Devil in Jesus name".
I know it was stupid but I didn't know any better.
Carlos Vigil said:"The passage emphaticaly does not support the absolute right of a Church organisation to be judge and jury over every matter."
Dear ChrisB (Christian Brother?)
from that conclusion, doesn't 1Cor.6: 2,3,4. become
null and void ?
Besides that,
St. Paul wrote 1 Cor. LONG BEFORE THERE WAS A BIBLE.
There are only 12 apostles in scripture and we are told now that Jesus is "The Apostle", which kind of puts an end to the idea of apostolic succession in any case.backley said:Carlos,
I believe apostolic succession is supported by the scripture but there was a criteria that needed to be met.
In addition, we need to be aware that the Roman Catholic Church began in 325AD, and that the church was around long before that. Further, the Holy scriptures were started at the time of Moses and thus the claim by the Roman Church to have created the Bible is impossible.sobresaliente said:The Authority that gave us the Holy Bible is God himself it is not the product of the Roman Church, but it's own downfall as seen in history with Luther and other reformers. This is not to say, however that the only church before them was the Roman one. Regardless of the Roman churches claim, there has never been just the Roman church, there have always been christian denominations and differences and there always will be.
Sobresaliente
Agreed.super_mog said:Basically, this verse of scripture has nothing to do with binding Satan and such
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