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Pope Saint Damasus I: The Chief See is judged by no one.
Pope Saint Sylvester I: The Judge can never be judged.
Pope Saint Boniface I: Our judgment is not to be reviewed, for it has never been permitted to go over anything once it has been decided by the Apostolic See.
Pope Boniface VIII: Therefore if the earthly power err, it shall be judged by the spiritual power; but if the lesser spiritual power err, by the greater. But if the greatest, it can be judged by God alone, not by man, the Apostles bearing witness. A spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is judged by no one.
Pope Saint Leo IX: By passing a preceding judgment on the great See, concerning which it is not permitted any man to pass judgment, you have received anathema from all the Fathers of all the venerable Councils.
Pope Saint Boniface I: To the Synod (of Corinth) we have directed such writings that all the brethren may know that there must be no withdrawal from our judgment. For it has never been allowed that that be discussed again which has been once decided by the Apostolic See.
Pope Eugene IV: Where I am, there is all Christendom.
Pope Saint Clement: Accept Our counsel and you shall have nothing to regret. But should anyone disobey what has been said through Us by Christ, let them understand that they will entangle themselves in great danger.
Pope Leo XIII: Can the Apostolic College be said to have been above its master in authority? This power over the Episcopal College to which we refer, and which is clearly set forth in Holy Writ, has ever been acknowledged and attested by the Church, as is clear from the teaching of General Councils. "We read that the Roman Pontiff has pronounced judgments on the prelates of all the churches; we do not read that anybody has pronounced sentence on him" (Hadrianus ii., in Allocutione iii., ad Synodum Romanum an. 869, Cf. Actionem vii., Conc. Constantinopolitani iv). The reason for which is stated thus: "there is no authority greater than that of the Apostolic See" (Nicholaus in Epist. lxxxvi. ad Michael. Imperat.) wherefore Gelasius on the decrees of Councils says: "That which the First See has not approved of cannot stand; but what it has thought well to decree has been received by the whole Church" (Epist. xxvi., ad Episcopos Dardaniae, n. 5).
Vatican Council Session 4: And since the Roman Pontiff is at the head of the universal Church by the divine right of apostolic primacy, We teach and declare also that he is the supreme judge of the faithful, and that in all cases pertaining to ecclesiastical examination recourse can be had to his judgment; moreover, that the judgment of the Apostolic See, whose authority is not surpassed, is to be disclaimed by no one, nor is anyone permitted to pass judgment on its judgment. Therefore, they stray from the straight path of truth who affirm that it is permitted to appeal from the judgments of the Roman Pontiffs to an ecumenical Council, as to an authority higher than the Roman Pontiff.
Ah, so ANYONE who can prove the "line of Ordination" back to one of the 13 (or 14) Apostles is the Authority?
Then,
1. What do you do with the reality that NO ONE can do that for the time period up to about 300 AD - there's a nearly 300 year gap NO ONE can account for?
2. Then you must disagree with the Catholic Catechism when it says authority is limited to, "... those bishops in communion with the bishop of Rome" (CCC #85).
3. Yes, the RCC acknowledges the SUCCESSION of bishops outside of itself, but it does NOT acknowledge their AUTHORITY - which is the point of this thread. And thus, this "disconnect" proves that AUTHORITY in the RCC is not derived from Apostolic Succession. But, as your Catechism points out, the RCC acknowledges only ONE authority: itself. It just appoints the one it sees in the mirror. And it has nothing to do with Apostolic Succession (real or imagined).
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Josiah said:Yes, the RCC acknowledges the SUCCESSION of bishops outside of itself, but it does NOT acknowledge their AUTHORITY - which is the point of this thread. And thus, this "disconnect" proves that AUTHORITY in the RCC is not derived from Apostolic Succession. But, as your Catechism points out, the RCC acknowledges only ONE authority: itself. It just appoints the one it sees in the mirror. And it has nothing to do with Apostolic Succession (real or imagined).
Actually you are very wrong on this subject both the EO, OO and RCC all acknowledge and accept each other's Apostolic Succesion.
Heaven forbid!You'd at least have to take it seriously.
I would give Hinduism, at the very least, a bit more credence on how to live one's life than I would a Baptist because at least Hindus do not dress themselves as wolves in sheep's clothing just to put another rear end in the pew.I wonder what authority you give to Hinduism?
Since Judaism is older than orthodoxy, do you regard it as more authoritative? Since Gnosticism is older than any known denomination, do you regard it as more authoritative?
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Yeah, but sometimes you come across one or two and can't help but wonder.Actually you are very wrong on this subject both the EO, OO and RCC all acknowledge and accept each other's Apostolic Succesion.
Zing!Does the LCMS recognize the Authority of the Southern Baptist to make policy and doctrine for the LCMS?
While it might be fair comment to suggest that we try to fix things that are not, in fact, broken it could equally be suggested that you assume that nothing old needs fixing and therefore cannot see those things that do need a good make-over.If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That is the entire history of Orthodox Christianity in a nutshell whereas the West seems to believe, that if something is not broken than it must be "fixed" for the sake of "fixing things".
It's certainly an interesting image.
I would not go that far.May I ask how a baptist are wolves in sheeps clothing? I had to edit this because I had a senior moment.
Does the LCMS recognize the Authority of the Southern Baptist to make policy and doctrine for the LCMS?
Well, before I got to this thread I was reading one in TAW which had a link to a group of Baptists in the Republic of Georgia (a country whose people have been Orthodox since about the 9th century or there abouts) who do things contrary to Baptists such as...May I ask how a baptist are wolves in sheeps clothing? I had to edit this because I had a senior moment.
I suppose that depends on how one defines error in the ChurchDon't we all?
Our Father which are in Heaven
Hallowed Be thy name
Thy Kingdom come
Thy Will be done
On earth as it is in heaven..
Shouldn't we all pray for God's authority in every aspect of our lives
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