Authoritative

ToxicReboMan · Sep 17, 2009

I have noticed that this word, "authoritative", has been thrown around here and there. And I think it would be productive if we discuss how to determine what is authoritative and what is not.

What makes something authoritative?

After all, we all want to believe that we are learning from truly authoritative sources.

ConqueredbyLove · Sep 17, 2009

ToxicReboMan said:
I have noticed that this word, "authoritative", has been thrown around here and there. And I think it would be productive if we discuss how to determine what is authoritative and what is not.

What makes something authoritative?

After all, we all want to believe that we are learning from truly authoritative sources.

I want to answer but I don't think I feel up to the battle

And a battle it would be

Sphinx777 · Sep 17, 2009

OpenDoor · Sep 17, 2009

Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
2 Peter 1:20-21

MrPolo · Sep 17, 2009

Jesus said all authority on heaven and earth was given to Him. He also said to His apostles, as the Father sent Him, so He sent them. So with regard to ministerial authority, it thus refers to those bearing Apostolic succession. The basis is thus both Scriptural and seen very early (around 180 AD) in Church history when Irenaeus argued the same thing (cf. Against Heresies. 3.3.1-3) against the Gnostic heretics who were trying to usurp Apostolic authority.

E.C. · Sep 18, 2009

I think if something has survived the test of time than that would, at the very least, make it quasi-authoritative.

CalmRon · Sep 18, 2009

the bible anyone?

ebia · Sep 18, 2009

ToxicReboMan said:
What makes something authoritative?

God.

All authority is given by God to Jesus. In every other case (hopefully) we are talking about Jesus' authority mediated through scripture (or whatever).

Of course, since Scripture is primarily narrative that opens up the question about what it means for a narrative to have authority.

TheCatholic · Sep 18, 2009

ToxicReboMan said:
I have noticed that this word, "authoritative", has been thrown around here and there. And I think it would be productive if we discuss how to determine what is authoritative and what is not.

What makes something authoritative?

After all, we all want to believe that we are learning from truly authoritative sources.

Simple.

Jesus gave his apostles authority, to "bind and loose", to teach, and to baptise. Thats directly out of the Bible.

That authority was handed down to their successors, the bishops. That is historical.

Authoritative sources would be officail documents put out by those bishops as a whole.

MamaZ · Sep 18, 2009

Gods word is in authority. For His word will not return void unto Him.

TheCatholic · Sep 18, 2009

Who said it wasn't?

MrPolo · Sep 18, 2009

E.C. said:
I think if something has survived the test of time than that would, at the very least, make it quasi-authoritative.

You'd at least have to take it seriously.

squint · Sep 18, 2009

Authority? Of what 'brand?'

Absolute Authority is not available to mankind. Paul certainly didn't take that position unto himself. He admittedly only saw IN PART as any person in their 'right' mind should be able to come to grips with.

Seeing only IN PART rules out Absolute Authority on any basis.

Even when I went through RCC catechism as an adult, after our 'group' did the ritual incantations, etc etc, the priest still asked us, DID YOU REALLY MEAN THAT? And he did so because NO ONE can definitively say their ritualistic practice was ANY GOOD whatsoever apart from the MEANINGFUL sincerety of the individuals, which they CANNOT SEE or PERCEIVE internally. They can't 'see there' within, therefore as it pertains to the individual's reflections, the only TRUE authority is the individual doing the reflections on these matters.

So, in short NO INDIVIDUAL reflections or NO GROUP reflections have ANY 'absolute authority' over any matter because IT'S ALL partial sight and INDIVIDUAL reflections that are involved.

The 'Pope' does not even ascribe ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY to his own positions. He recognizes for example that there MAY BE people who are saved OUTSIDE the scope of his groups supposed absolute authority.

Even in the doctrines of traditional orthodoxy the practioners STILL have their own 'individual reflections' of these matters because of what is IN themselves as they view these matters, even if those views remain unspoken/unwritten. And even orthodox tradition is STILL BASED on the original 'reflectors' PARTIAL SIGHT, meaning that even these cannot be 'absolute.' Traditional orthodox beliefs do not provide ABSOLUTE authority to their members about solid facts of salvation for example. It's only their BEST GUESS as to the determination of salvation, as even they defer to the FINAL AUTHORITY who can only be GOD Himself.

The best authority in regards to common christianity can only be a muddled...

MAYBE...maybe not. Call that authority...if that works for you.

I have no use in bowing to maybe's and partial visions as any type of absolute definitive authority nor do I believe any of the Apostles took that upon themselves. Even orthodox authority tells me that I will have to stand before God with my OWN INDIVIDUAL REFLECTIONS...and be judged therein, both GOOD and BAD...so even in this they still DEFER their own authority to God Alone. Middle non-absolute authority muddlers often serve only to cloud the picture of my own reflections or to even state something as solid when it may NOT BE SO...

Rather I stand before God as a blindman compared to HIM...therefore I 'squint.'

enjoy!

squint

ConqueredbyLove · Sep 18, 2009

squint said:
Authority? Of what 'brand?'

Absolute Authority is not available to mankind. Paul certainly didn't take that position unto himself. He admittedly only saw IN PART as any person in their 'right' mind should be able to come to grips with.

Seeing only IN PART rules out Absolute Authority on any basis.

Even when I went through RCC catechism as an adult, after our 'group' did the ritual incantations, etc etc, the priest still asked us, DID YOU REALLY MEAN THAT? And he did so because NO ONE can definitively say their ritualistic practice was ANY GOOD whatsoever apart from the MEANINGFUL sincerety of the individuals, which they CANNOT SEE or PERCEIVE internally. They can't 'see there' within, therefore as it pertains to the individual's reflections, the only TRUE authority is the individual doing the reflections on these matters.

So, in short NO INDIVIDUAL reflections or NO GROUP reflections have ANY 'absolute authority' over any matter because IT'S ALL partial sight and INDIVIDUAL reflections that are involved.

The 'Pope' does not even ascribe ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY to his own positions. He recognizes for example that there MAY BE people who are saved OUTSIDE the scope of his groups supposed absolute authority.

Even in the doctrines of traditional orthodoxy the practioners STILL have their own 'individual reflections' of these matters because of what is IN themselves as they view these matters, even if those views remain unspoken/unwritten. And even orthodox tradition is STILL BASED on the original 'reflectors' PARTIAL SIGHT, meaning that even these cannot be 'absolute.' Traditional orthodox beliefs do not provide ABSOLUTE authority to their members about solid facts of salvation for example. It's only their BEST GUESS as to the determination of salvation, as even they defer to the FINAL AUTHORITY who can only be GOD Himself.

The best authority in regards to common christianity can only be a muddled...

MAYBE...maybe not. Call that authority...if that works for you.

I have no use in bowing to maybe's and partial visions as any type of absolute definitive authority nor do I believe any of the Apostles took that upon themselves. Even orthodox authority tells me that I will have to stand before God with my OWN INDIVIDUAL REFLECTIONS...and be judged therein, both GOOD and BAD...so even in this they still DEFER their own authority to God Alone. Middle non-absolute authority muddlers often serve only to cloud the picture of my own reflections or to even state something as solid when it may NOT BE SO...

Rather I stand before God as a blindman compared to HIM...therefore I 'squint.'

enjoy!

squint

This is one of the best posts I have ever seen! So Holy Spirit led

TheCatholic · Sep 18, 2009

ConqueredbyLove said:
This is one of the best posts I have ever seen! So Holy Spirit led

It may be led by a spirit, but not the Holy Spirit, because it is incorrect

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 18, 2009

TheCatholic said:
It may be led by a spirit, but not the Holy Spirit, because it is incorrect

Can you please elaborate? Thanks

Sphinx777 · Sep 18, 2009

TheCatholic · Sep 18, 2009

LittleLambofJesus said:
Can you please elaborate? Thanks

First of all, no one ever said anything about absolute authority. The authority that the pope has he has, and the authority he doesn't have he doesn't have.

But he can excersize the gift of Infallibility, when God decides it is time.

There is already a thread on the pope though so I don't want to go too far into that

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 18, 2009

Sphinx777 said:
Sphinx777 said:

It Is We Who Rule Here... Not The Mob Of The Sands...

Click to expand...

No offense to the RCs or their Pope, but I find it rather "distracting" when hugh pictures of the Catholics' Pope get posted on threads.

http://www.christianforums.com/t6449385-53/#post40857610

I am now unsubscribing.........

visionary · Sep 18, 2009

In heaven God is authorative... and His will be on earth even as it is in heaven... in the mean time.. we have the pope claiming God's authority.... by apostle assension

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Woe those who call evil good + good evil. Is 5:20

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

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