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Augustine, Luther and Calvin

rockytopva

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Bunyan... Arminius... Wesley

Folks who practiced non violence towards their fellow man. I would say that there was one worthy name on your list... Augustine... Who was a good soul...

What does love look like? It has the hands to help others. It has the feet to hasten to the poor and needy. It has eyes to see misery and want. It has the ears to hear the sighs and sorrows of men. That is what love looks like.

It was pride that changed angels into devils; it is humility that makes men as angels.

Since love grows within you, so beauty grows. For love is the beauty of the soul.

Saint Augustine

Yes... Augustine was a good soul.
 
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rockytopva

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The fruits of Bunyan... Arminius... Wesley... The Methodist Episcopol Church, South, in which we have gems such as George Clark Rankin and Robert Sheffey. The great American Methodist Circuit Riders!

Robert_Sheffey.jpg



Camp Meeting in Virginia around the old, Methodist Episcopal Church South mourners bench!

I passed my examinations and that year I was sent to the Wytheville Station and Circuit. That was adjoining my former charge. We reached the old parsonage on the pike just out of Wytheville as Rev. B. W. S. Bishop moved out. Charley Bishop was then a little tow-headed boy. He is now the learned Regent of Southwestern University. The parsonage was an old two-and-a-half-story structure with nine rooms and it looked a little like Hawthorne's house with the seven gables. It was the lonesomest-looking old house I ever saw. There was no one there to meet us, for we had not notified anybody of the time we would arrive.

Think of taking a young bride to that sort of a mansion! But she was brave and showed no sign of disappointment. That first night we felt like two whortleberries in a Virginia tobacco wagonbed. We had room and to spare, but it was scantily furnished with specimens as antique as those in Noah's ark. But in a week or so we were invited out to spend the day with a good family, and when we went back we found the doors fastened just as we had left them, but when we entered a bedroom was elegantly furnished with everything modern and the parlor was in fine shape. The ladies had been there and done the work. How much does the preacher owe to the good women of the Church!

The circuit was a large one, comprising seventeen appointments. They were practically scattered all over the county. I preached every other day, and never less than twice and generally three times on Sunday.

I had associated with me that year a young collegemate, Rev. W. B. Stradley. He was a bright, popular fellow, and we managed to give Wytheville regular Sunday preaching. Stradley became a great preacher and died a few years ago while pastor of Trinity Church, Atlanta, Georgia. We were true yokefellows and did a great work on that charge, held fine revivals and had large ingatherings.

The famous Cripple Creek Campground was on that work. They have kept up campmeetings there for more than a hundred years. It is still the great rallying point for the Methodists of all that section. I have never heard such singing and preaching and shouting anywhere else in my life. I met the Rev. John Boring there and heard him preach. He was a well-known preacher in the conference; original, peculiar, strikingly odd, but a great revival preacher.

One morning in the beginning of the service he was to preach and he called the people to prayer. He prayed loud and long and told the Lord just what sort of a meeting we were expecting and really exhorted the people as to their conduct on the grounds. Among other things, he said we wanted no horse- trading and then related that just before kneeling he had seen a man just outside the encampment looking into the mouth of a horse and he made such a peculiar sound as he described the incident that I lifted up my head to look at him, and he was holding his mouth open with his hands just as the man had done in looking into the horse's mouth! But he was a man of power and wrought well for the Church and for humanity.

The rarest character I ever met in my life I met at that campmeeting in the person of Rev. Robert Sheffy, known as "Bob" Sheffy. He was recognized all over Southwest Virginia as the most eccentric preacher of that country. He was a local preacher; crude, illiterate, queer and the oddest specimen known among preachers. But he was saintly in his life, devout in his experience and a man of unbounded faith. He wandered hither and thither over that section attending meetings, holding revivals and living among the people. He was great in prayer, and Cripple Creek campground was not complete without "Bob" Sheffy. They wanted him there to pray and work in the altar.

He was wonderful with penitents. And he was great in following up the sermon with his exhortations and appeals. He would sometimes spend nearly the whole night in the straw with mourners; and now and then if the meeting lagged he would go out on the mountain and spend the entire night in prayer, and the next morning he would come rushing into the service with his face all aglow shouting at the top of his voice. And then the meeting always broke loose with a floodtide.

He could say the oddest things, hold the most unique interviews with God, break forth in the most unexpected spasms of praise, use the homeliest illustrations, do the funniest things and go through with the most grotesque performances of any man born of woman.

It was just "Bob" Sheffy, and nobody thought anything of what he did and said, except to let him have his own way and do exactly as he pleased. In anybody else it would not have been tolerated for a moment. In fact, he acted more like a crazy man than otherwise, but he was wonderful in a meeting. He would stir the people, crowd the mourner's bench with crying penitents and have genuine conversions by the score. I doubt if any man in all that conference has as many souls to his credit in the Lamb's Book of Life as old "Bob" Sheffy.

At the close of that year in casting up my accounts I found that I had received three hundred and ninety dollars for my year's work, and the most of this had been contributed in everything except money. It required about the amount of cash contributed to pay my associate and the Presiding Elder. I got the chickens, the eggs, the butter, the ribs and backbones, the corn, the meat, and the Presiding Elder and Brother Stradley had helped us to eat our part of the quarterage. Well, we kept open house and had a royal time, even if we did not get much ready cash. We lived and had money enough to get a good suit of clothes and to pay our way to conference. What more does a young Methodist preacher need or want? We were satisfied and happy, and these experiences are not to be counted as unimportant assets in the life and work of a Methodist circuit rider.

(As told by George Clark Rankin)
 
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I do not know if I will have enough to say to make a thread, but what I do say is usually clear and to the point.
I believe that Martin Luther and John Calvin got their false teachings from Augustine.
Luther joined Augustinian Order at Erfurt and became an Augustinian friar.
John Calvin studied The Augustinian tradition.
Luther and Calvin did not search for God; they delved into the teachings of Augustine and were led into more falseness by his teachings.

Deuteronomy 4:29 But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you seek him with all your heart and with all your soul.


Matthew 7:7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.



Even David’s son Solomon had to seek God.


1 Chronicle3s 28:9 "And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.


I think that you too merely went to school and followed a choice denomination’s teachings, and have the error of men who made false doctrines.
 
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drstevej

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I think that you too merely went to school and followed a choice denomination’s teachings, and have the error of men who made false doctrines.


I grew up Methodist and became a believer in high school. My bachelors degree was at Ga Tech in Engineering. I was already accepted into the Master's Program at Ga Tech when I had an unmistakeable call to shift from engineering to seminary. I fought this for several months and then agreed to look into it. I applied to Dallas Seminary because I agreed with their views and commitment to the Bible. I told my grandmother that I was going to seminary and she without any prompting wrote a check for the entire amount.

I was baptised in college by Dr. Charles Stanley, a Southern Baptist. He wrote a reference for me to attend Dallas Seminary.

I did a Masters and a PhD in Church History and as I searched Scriptures my views began to take shape. At DTS I was very antagonistic to Calvinism but kept finding a sovereign God on the pages of Scripture. I went to Westminster because I was interested in the issues of the Reformation. As a dispensationalist I was a distinct minority on campus but was well received.

I have served as a non-denominational pastor for almost 40 years in six churches. I accepted the call to these churches because their views and my views were compatible.

Your statement is simply not true.

And I would agree that Calvin and Luther were sympathetic to Augustine's views; but both affirmed that they came to their views from their study of the Bible. Both broke away from the Catholic Church because they found the doctrine and practices out of accord with Holy Scripture. Neither course of action was the easy route but both had consciences bound by the Word of God.

At Marburg Luther and Zwingli did not unite because they differed over what they each held to be the Bible's teaching on the nature of Christ's presence in the Supper. Calvin held a different view. The three agreed upon Sola Scriptura and Forensic Justification (sola fide/sola gratia).

Both were students of Church History but not bound by tradition when the Word of God taught to the contrary.

Steve
 
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[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I grew up Methodist and became a believer in high school. My bachelors degree was at Ga Tech in Engineering. I was already accepted into the Master's Program at Ga Tech when I had an unmistakeable call to shift from engineering to seminary. I fought this for several months and then agreed to look into it. I applied to Dallas Seminary because I agreed with their views and commitment to the Bible. I told my grandmother that I was going to seminary and she without any prompting wrote a check for the entire amount.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]With all due respect, to your grandmother, even parents to a son or daughter wanting to become a priest or a nun to the Catholic denomination would be proud. It does not mean it is right.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
I was baptised in college by Dr. Charles Stanley, a Southern Baptist. He wrote a reference for me to attend Dallas Seminary.

I did a Masters and a PhD in Church History and as I searched Scriptures my views began to take shape. At DTS I was very antagonistic to Calvinism but kept finding a sovereign God on the pages of Scripture. I went to Westminster because I was interested in the issues of the Reformation. As a dispensationalist I was a distinct minority on campus but was well received.

I have served as a non-denominational pastor for almost 40 years in six churches. I accepted the call to these churches because their views and my views were compatible. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Non-denominational churches are not much different than the denominational ones, they have many false doctrines too.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

Your statement is simply not true.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You told me some history about yourself, and you prove what I said by what you said.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You too merely went to school and followed a choice denomination’s teachings, and have the error of men who made false doctrines.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
And I would agree that Calvin and Luther were sympathetic to Augustine's views; but both affirmed that they came to their views from their study of the Bible.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You have not been listening very well to what I have been saying. Since when is studying the Bible thee way to find God’s Truth?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We have to get Jesus’ teachings from the Bible---and do exactly what he says---THEN we will get understanding. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Understanding comes AFTER obedience.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]God says to seek Him, and we will find Him.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We seek Him by getting Jesus' teachings in the written Word.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We find Him by obeying Jesus' teachings.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]God reveals Truth to us after we obey.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]See Psalm 119:100; Proverbs 3:32; Proverbs 3:5-6; John 14:21; Philippians 4:9; Luke 11:28; John 7:17; John 8:30-32; John 13:17.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Once a person actually does exactly as Jesus says, they have broken the barrier that keeps all away from God; they have turned from sin and disobedience, to being a person after God’s own heart. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I tell you, once a person starts doing exactly as Jesus says, there is no way that God will not bless them beyond measure, and that they will teach others to do likewise.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Both broke away from the Catholic Church because they found the doctrine and practices out of accord with Holy Scripture. Neither course of action was the easy route but both had consciences bound by the Word of God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]They rightly went against many of the Catholic’s false doctrines, yet Luther did not go far enough, he still preached falseness that he learned from the Catholic denomination, such as infant baptism and the leaders turning wine and bread into the real flesh and blood of Jesus. Calvin stopped doing many of the false doctrines from the Catholic denomination, and then became a leader in a major false doctrine called Calvinism.[/FONT]
 
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drstevej

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Since when is studying the Bible thee way to find God’s Truth?

Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

How well do you follow precisely what Jesus taught? Just take this teaching....

Mark 12 said:
28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

100%
98%
90%
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[FONT=&quot]Since when is studying the Bible thee way to find God’s Truth?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]That scripture does not support not obeying Jesus’ teachings in order to get understanding from God, as Jesus tells us.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]That scripture is about the Bereans searching the scriptures to make sure the Apostles taught them the truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

How well do you follow precisely what Jesus taught? Just take this teaching....[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Originally Posted by Mark 12[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength[/FONT][FONT=&quot].’ 31 The second is this:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[/FONT][FONT=&quot] There is no commandment greater than these.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]100%
98%
90%
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[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jesus would not have saved me if I had not done exactly as he says.[/FONT]
 
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28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”



[FONT=&quot]The most important scripture is that we love God with all our heart, soul, and mind, and the second is to love your neighbor as yourself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Do not think the rest of the scriptures are not necessary, for the rest of the scriptures teach us how to love God, and how to love yourself and others.[/FONT]

 
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drstevej

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[FONT=&quot]Jesus would not have saved me if I had not done exactly as he says.[/FONT]

So you hit 100%. Why did you need a savior?
 
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So you hit 100%. Why did you need a savior?

Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins.

After we obey Jesus, we become the temple of the living God.

We are reconciled to God, and have the Holy Spirit as our Helper, our Comforter.


I can give you scripture for everything that I say. If you do not recognize what I say as scripture, just ask for the scripture reference.
 
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So why did Jesus need to die on the cross?


Jesus died on the cross so that we can be reconciled to God, to have forgiveness of sins without anything but faith that we are forgiven.


God says the blood makes atonement for our souls.
 
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