ATTN PRE and IDD Combatants.

[Gabriel]

Concerning the warning I posted yesterday in PRE:

It wasn't meant to be harsh. It wasn't meant to offend anyone or exclude anyone from fellowship. The reason I singled out Catholics is simply because it is Protestants of every denom and Catholics that are having the problems with each other.

I see PRE and OBOB much like I view our individual sanctuary buildings. If I were to walk past the open doors of a Catholic house of worship and hear a sermon addressing perceived weaknesses in Protestant doctrine I wouldn't skid to a halt and walk in and start "correcting" them. Let's face it, we differ greatly on quite a few issues. But seriously folks, I have a very good friend who is a muslim and he and I don't fight like we do here!

This fighting is ridiculous! I truly like all of you. Do I think I'm right and you're wrong? Yes, I do. But you feel the same way, so why do we have to keep being ignorant with one another? We don't have to agree on anything other than the fact that we are not being Christ-like by tearing each other down. Jesus told us to love our enemies and our neighbors, so whether you consider the people here and around you friend or foe, we are left without excuse.

My sincere apologies to anyone I offended. Had I thought the OP out a bit longer I would probably not have worded it the way I did. As Bear said the lack of facial expression and tone don't allow for emotion here. What we write has to be worded carefully if we don't intend to offend. Let's all remember that. There are some great scholars here and some zealous defenders of the faith. Whether we use 66 books of the bible or more, all of our scriptures contain Col. 4:6.

 

[KennySe]

Peace be with you and all the staff, Gabriel.

It's this darn feud between the Hatfield's and the McCoy's.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Gabriel-

You mentioned that we "ruin" threads over there by posting in them...that may be true.

But dont you think its a double-standard to have PRE's complain about our threads here so that they get locked or deleted?

 

[nyj]

Gabriel,

I've been debating what I've wanted to say about your post for quite a bit here, and have been waffling back and forth as to whether or not I wanted to reply or just leave it be. Well, I finally decided to say something.

What upset me about your original post can summarized by the second sentence of your apology:

The reason I singled out Catholics is simply because it is Protestants of every denom and Catholics that are having the problems with each other.

Here, you admit that it was Protestants AND Catholics that were having the problems. But, instead of addressing both groups, you singled out the Catholics. At that moment, I felt that you, as a moderator, established an "us versus them" situation, and since Catholics were singled out, I felt as if we (as Catholics) were seen as being too stupid to understand the two other stickie threads which said the same exact thing but in greater detail and without the singling out. That's what cut into me the most.

With that said however, this is no longer here nor there. It is water under the bridge and is something I wish to altogether forget. Therefore, I happily accept your apology, and I wish to seek your forgiveness for things that I have said against you and your faith as well. Please forgive me brother.

Hopefully your apology will begin the smoothing over of relations between PRE and OBOB. Lord knows, it is greatly needed. Thanks for this opportunity to discuss our differences, our hurts and then seek forgiveness from one another.

 

[Gabriel]

Perhaps I wasn't clear in the intention of the above post. My desire is for the fighting to stop. I didn't say anything about you ruining posts. I may have in the past, but this post was an attempt to correct that.

Gabriel-

You mentioned that we "ruin" threads over there by posting in them...that may be true.

But dont you think its a double-standard to have PRE's complain about our threads here so that they get locked or deleted?

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Perhaps I wasn't clear in the intention of the above post. My desire is for the fighting to stop. I didn't say anything about you ruining posts. I may have in the past, but this post was an attempt to correct that.

Ok, but for me to take your post seriously, don't you think you should ALSO address those in PRE...can't you tell them to leave our threads alone?

Two of my threads from yesterday are now gone. Do you think Catholics got them deleted?

You wisely said...

I see PRE and OBOB much like I view our individual sanctuary buildings. If I were to walk past the open doors of a Catholic house of worship and hear a sermon addressing perceived weaknesses in Protestant doctrine I wouldn't skid to a halt and walk in and start "correcting" them.

But by allowing the PREs to virtually destory the pulpit (by getting threads deleted) in OBOB you are allowing them to do just what you speak out against, no?

 

[nyj]

Two of my threads from yesterday are now gone. Do you think Catholics got them deleted?

I think, in the best interest of charity, that we need to consider all the possibilities.

 

[Benedicta00]

I think, in the best interest of charity, that we need to consider all the possibilities.

Yea, I mean come on. We have to watch the nature of our own threads because right now there is a, not so good thread in the Protestant room that I actually even question the integrity of, that it is a “made up” scenario, and I can not help but think that it is a counter to a thread that was rightfully deleted in here.

This is the thing that needs to stop, the retaliation thing. Each side needs to be sensitive to what they post. It isn’t open season on each other right now like we think.

 

[Gabriel]

Gabriel,


Here, you admit that it was Protestants AND Catholics that were having the problems. But, instead of addressing both groups, you singled out the Catholics. At that moment, I felt that you, as a moderator, established an "us versus them" situation, and since Catholics were singled out, I felt as if we (as Catholics) were seen as being too stupid to understand the two other stickie threads which said the same exact thing but in greater detail and without the singling out. That's what cut into me the most.

But why were you singled out? Because it is PRE, that's why. And if Prots are coming in OBOB and causing trouble, by all means, report them. That is your safe haven.

nyj, we are divided. I wasn't trying to divide us further. I was trying to ask that we be left in our safe haven without having to defend ourselves. Honestly, in PRE I expect to have to defend my Calvinistic views to other Prots. However, I should NOT have to defend my Protestantism to anyone who is not Protestant. And if I want to voice my opinion about something that urks you, I should be able to do that.

We have different beliefs. Some of what you see as untruth is truth to us. For instance (and I don't want a rebuttal to this); Some of us have said that praying to, with, or for Mary and the Saints is idol worship. You would correct us and tell us all about why it's not idol worship. Here's the important part: You may not believe it's idol worship, but some of us do. That's why we're Protestant, because we disagree.

Now, if someone in PRE were to call Catholics cannibals, I would edit and warn them. However, if they said, "I believe that praying to, with or for anyone other than God (Christ) is idol worship." I would not have a problem with it.

Please do not take my "to, with or for" in the above and make a big thing about it. Such as, "You don't pray with or for other Christians?" You know what I am getting at here. We believe differently and what you see as truth, I see as false and it goes both ways. But we have areas to discuss it with like minded people and I want it to stay that way.

A couple people have told me that my post was offensive because it sounded like I thought all of you were stupid and couldn't understand Erwin's rule on your own. Well, let's look at the specific rule I was attempting to address:

Non-Protestant members (eg. Catholic members) can only post fellowship posts here or posts to ask a question regarding Protestant or Evangelical doctrine. Once the question is answered, there shall be no debate over the answer in this forum by the Non-Protestant. Any debate posts by Non-Protestants will be deleted or moved to the Interdenominational Doctrine Debate forum. In other words, only Protestant members can debate here.

That is pretty clear, but has not been followed. If it is sufficient, why are we arguing?

 

[Gabriel]

Ok, but for me to take your post seriously, don't you think you should ALSO address those in PRE...can't you tell them to leave our threads alone?

Two of my threads from yesterday are now gone. Do you think Catholics got them deleted?

You wisely said...



But by allowing the PREs to virtually destory the pulpit (by getting threads deleted) in OBOB you are allowing them to do just what you speak out against, no?

I'm not allowed to moderate in OBOB. Your mods there are responsible for such. You are complaining to the wrong person.

 

[Carrye]

How did we get to this point? What was it that created an environment such that every encounter with a Protestant (or Catholic as the case may be) is an opportunity for bashing?

It's ridiculous, quite honestly, and I'm tired of it. We have highly educated people here reducing themselves to insults. I can't imagine what non-Christians must think.

I don't mean to sound high and almighty, because I am certainly not without blame, but this must stop. What can we do to make it stop?

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

What can we do to make it stop?

Create justice and a fair system?

 

[nyj]

But why were you singled out? Because it is PRE, that's why.

There are also Orthodox and Messianic Jew posters in these fora. You didn't address them. That's my point.

I fear that this thread will cease to be about apologies and more about justifying our actions. I'm bowing out before it gets to that point.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

I'm not allowed to moderate in OBOB. Your mods there are responsible for such. You are complaining to the wrong person.

I'm sorry, I thought you had some influence at PRE.

Recall, I didnt ask you to stop moderating threads here, I asked you to get your "folks" to stop complaining about threads in OBOB that are meant for CATHOLICS to read.

Did I complain to you about the "Joyful Conversion" thread that celebrates someone leaving Catholicism and joining a "Christian" church? No.

 

[Carrye]

Create justice and a fair system?

Ok. How might we be able to do that?

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Ok. How might we be able to do that?

Personally it really annoys me that I can't ask a Catholic question to Catholics without my threads getting locked and deleted because some protestant gets offended by it.

It hypocritical. We can't go into their threads and debate them, because it "ruins" the threads, but they are allowed to read our threads and get them locked by complaining to the mods.

Thats my two cents anyway, I could be wrong.

 

[nyj]

Personally it really annoys me that I can't ask a Catholic question to Catholics without my threads getting locked and deleted because some protestant gets offended by it.

Personally, I questioned the timing of one of your threads because I thought it was a "branch off" from a thread from PRE. Whether a Protestant found it offensive or not, I do not know, but perhaps my concerns about the timing of your thread was enough to put that thread "on hold" until things cooled off. So if you wish to be angry at anyone, you might want to turn your anger towards me.

 

[Miss Shelby]

We have different beliefs. Some of what you see as untruth is truth to us.

Gabriel,

I appreciate what you are trying to do and I know that you are doing it in the interest of unity. I just want to make one point, and then I won't post anymore in this thread.

Sometimes, it goes beyond just what we see as truth and what you see as truth. Sometimes, it is a genuine misunderstanding that some people just refuse to have resolved.

For instance, a few weeks ago, in PRE, there was a discussion going on, I believe about the authenticity of the authority of the Catholic Church. A Catholic poster, for some reason that cannot quite remember, brought up Pelagianism, a fifth century heresy., and noted that it had been condemned by the Church.

A Protestant poster remarked that we are not allowed to call Protestant beliefs heresy. CLEARLY, this person did not know what Pelagianism is, for it promoted a works based salvation, and no Protestant in their right mind would say that it is a Protestant belief.

When I tried to point that out, I was ignored by the poster who said that and told by another poster that I was trying to pick a fight.

It's stuff like that that happens more often than not.

Michelle

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Personally, I questioned the timing of one of your threads because I thought it was a "branch off" from a thread from PRE. Whether a Protestant found it offensive or not, I do not know, but perhaps my concerns about the timing of your thread was enough to put that thread "on hold" until things cooled off. So if you wish to be angry at anyone, you might want to turn your anger towards me.

I didnt even get a PM or anything about my conversion question. The thread is just gone. Are you saying you deleted it yourself?

 

[nyj]

I didnt even get a PM or anything about my conversion question. The thread is just gone. Are you saying you deleted it yourself?

No, I didn't delete it. I'm not a moderator.