ATTENDANCE POLLS AND STATISTICS

[Choir Loft]

Church attendance figures in America are skewed and inaccurate. Can you help straighten out this mess?

A wide variance in reporting of church and synagogue attendance figures can be discovered by anyone who has spent a modicum of time researching current trends. Some of this is attributable to overt lies and some of it due to negligence in reporting.

People lie about everything
For instance, a 1997 University of Chicago study determined that people lie about their behavior - all the way from 1950's Kinsey studies on sexual behavior to 1990's church attendance. At the end of the 90's the university study revealed that churches reported 47% regular attendance (defined as at least once per month) versus 23% actual head count of people coming out the door.

the Big Picture
Overall statistics suggest that 47% of Americans attend church regularly (defined as at least once per month) as compared to 1950. Projections of this trend put attendance levels at 10% by 2050.

Skewed numbers
Attendance in synagogues by Jews is almost as varied as Church attendance because many polls lump the two together. In Florida, church's allow dual membership. A person may belong to a church in a northern state as well as in Florida. Membership numbers in this instance have no real meaning.

Popular Publications
Christian publications often skew the numbers too. Christianity Today states nearly 80% of Americans believe in God, but this does not translate to religious dedication or regular attendance and certainly not in amounts of donations.

Donations, by the way, are NEVER reported accurately.

Internet religious web sites do not report success in any form. A hit doesn't imply conversion.

Itinerant preachers and tabloid religious magazine make false claims all the time. China, for example, is said to imprison many Christian leaders when in fact fewer than a half dozen have been jailed nationwide. The Communists are much more subtle than is perceived. They use economic pressures rather than force to nudge Christians and Christian leaders to their way of thinking. Ignorance of policies and real numbers leads to dangerous misconceptions.

Accurate reporting
Some suggest that the discrepancy can be alleviated by performing an actual head count, but this process is lengthy and expensive. If anyone knows of a reputable organization that has carried out such a survey, please inform us.

Why?
Accurate reporting is necessary for religious leaders to identify problems and to plan for the future. Sermons that state numbers need to be accurate to be believable and to carry weight with their hearers.

Unless we all want to continue to fly by the seat of our pants, truthful numbers are a real necessity. How can we determine real attendance figures? Do you know? Can you help?

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

Church attendance figures in America are skewed and inaccurate. Can you help straighten out this mess?

A wide variance in reporting of church and synagogue attendance figures can be discovered by anyone who has spent a modicum of time researching current trends. Some of this is attributable to overt lies and some of it due to negligence in reporting.

People lie about everything
For instance, a 1997 University of Chicago study determined that people lie about their behavior - all the way from 1950's Kinsey studies on sexual behavior to 1990's church attendance. At the end of the 90's the university study revealed that churches reported 47% regular attendance (defined as at least once per month) versus 23% actual head count of people coming out the door.

the Big Picture
Overall statistics suggest that 47% of Americans attend church regularly (defined as at least once per month) as compared to 1950. Projections of this trend put attendance levels at 10% by 2050.

Skewed numbers
Attendance in synagogues by Jews is almost as varied as Church attendance because many polls lump the two together. In Florida, church's allow dual membership. A person may belong to a church in a northern state as well as in Florida. Membership numbers in this instance have no real meaning.

Popular Publications
Christian publications often skew the numbers too. Christianity Today states nearly 80% of Americans believe in God, but this does not translate to religious dedication or regular attendance and certainly not in amounts of donations.

Donations, by the way, are NEVER reported accurately.

Internet religious web sites do not report success in any form. A hit doesn't imply conversion.

Itinerant preachers and tabloid religious magazine make false claims all the time. China, for example, is said to imprison many Christian leaders when in fact fewer than a half dozen have been jailed nationwide. The Communists are much more subtle than is perceived. They use economic pressures rather than force to nudge Christians and Christian leaders to their way of thinking. Ignorance of policies and real numbers leads to dangerous misconceptions.

Accurate reporting
Some suggest that the discrepancy can be alleviated by performing an actual head count, but this process is lengthy and expensive. If anyone knows of a reputable organization that has carried out such a survey, please inform us.

Why?
Accurate reporting is necessary for religious leaders to identify problems and to plan for the future. Sermons that state numbers need to be accurate to be believable and to carry weight with their hearers.

Unless we all want to continue to fly by the seat of our pants, truthful numbers are a real necessity. How can we determine real attendance figures? Do you know? Can you help?

There is the famous quote, “lies, damn lies and statistics”

More often than not questions are phrased in such a way to give a particular slant to the statistic.

I can well believe that 90% of Americans believe in a God, other statistics suggest that less than 10% are atheists, so that is a reasonable conclusion.

I believe Barna do regular statistics relating to church life and have done so. For decades. Their methods are standard for statistics collecting and they ask the same questions year after year so trends can’t be skewed.

 

[Halbhh]

Church attendance figures in America are skewed and inaccurate. Can you help straighten out this mess?

A wide variance in reporting of church and synagogue attendance figures can be discovered by anyone who has spent a modicum of time researching current trends. Some of this is attributable to overt lies and some of it due to negligence in reporting.

People lie about everything
For instance, a 1997 University of Chicago study determined that people lie about their behavior - all the way from 1950's Kinsey studies on sexual behavior to 1990's church attendance. At the end of the 90's the university study revealed that churches reported 47% regular attendance (defined as at least once per month) versus 23% actual head count of people coming out the door.

the Big Picture
Overall statistics suggest that 47% of Americans attend church regularly (defined as at least once per month) as compared to 1950. Projections of this trend put attendance levels at 10% by 2050.

Skewed numbers
Attendance in synagogues by Jews is almost as varied as Church attendance because many polls lump the two together. In Florida, church's allow dual membership. A person may belong to a church in a northern state as well as in Florida. Membership numbers in this instance have no real meaning.

Popular Publications
Christian publications often skew the numbers too. Christianity Today states nearly 80% of Americans believe in God, but this does not translate to religious dedication or regular attendance and certainly not in amounts of donations.

Donations, by the way, are NEVER reported accurately.

Internet religious web sites do not report success in any form. A hit doesn't imply conversion.

Itinerant preachers and tabloid religious magazine make false claims all the time. China, for example, is said to imprison many Christian leaders when in fact fewer than a half dozen have been jailed nationwide. The Communists are much more subtle than is perceived. They use economic pressures rather than force to nudge Christians and Christian leaders to their way of thinking. Ignorance of policies and real numbers leads to dangerous misconceptions.

Accurate reporting
Some suggest that the discrepancy can be alleviated by performing an actual head count, but this process is lengthy and expensive. If anyone knows of a reputable organization that has carried out such a survey, please inform us.

Why?
Accurate reporting is necessary for religious leaders to identify problems and to plan for the future. Sermons that state numbers need to be accurate to be believable and to carry weight with their hearers.

Unless we all want to continue to fly by the seat of our pants, truthful numbers are a real necessity. How can we determine real attendance figures? Do you know? Can you help?

Getting the questions in a poll more narrow and exact gives better information. This looks useful --

http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/attendance-at-religious-services/

 

[chevyontheriver]

Unless we all want to continue to fly by the seat of our pants, truthful numbers are a real necessity. How can we determine real attendance figures? Do you know? Can you help?

There can be no accurate reporting unless all of them use at least the same reporting methods. And that is unlikely to ever happen. So comparisons will never be accurate. So it's best to not put much faith in these numbers reports. For example, some liberal denominations were supposed to have vanished to zero twenty years ago, yet they still do have a few members left. Somehow. The mathematics is fine but the data is not. And I don't think the data will improve much to become actually usable.

 

[Halbhh]

There can be no accurate reporting unless all of them use at least the same reporting methods. And that is unlikely to ever happen. So comparisons will never be accurate. So it's best to not put much faith in these numbers reports. For example, some liberal denominations were supposed to have vanished to zero twenty years ago, yet they still do have a few members left. Somehow. The mathematics is fine but the data is not. And I don't think the data will improve much to become actually usable.

Some people try to label the ELCA Lutheran as 'liberal' which I know first hand is nonsense really, in that it's full of the whole range of viewpoints, and the whole range gets represented and on the councils, etc. I can't help but wonder if some part of the other so called 'liberal' churches are much the same -- full of a whole range of viewpoints, and the people tolerant and not given to contention.....

You know....that's how Paul instructed Christians to be....to live in harmony and not be contentious. Interesting.... I had not thought of that before for our own adopted church (I did not grow up Lutheran). Maybe the ELCA live-and-let-live-and-love-one-another is just what Paul had in mind.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Some people try to label the ELCA Lutheran as 'liberal' which I know first hand is nonsense really, in that it's full of the whole range of viewpoints, and the whole range gets represented and on the councils, etc. I can't help but wonder if some part of the other so called 'liberal' churches are much the same -- full of a whole range of viewpoints, and the people tolerant and not given to contention.....

You know....that's how Paul instructed Christians to be....to live in harmony and not be contentious. Interesting.... I had not thought of that before for our own adopted church (I did not grow up Lutheran). Maybe the ELCA live-and-let-live-and-love-one-another is just what Paul had in mind.

The ELCA is indeed a mixed bag. I couldn't be ELCA if I was a Lutheran, but then again I don't know if I could be in the more agreeable to me Missouri or Wisconsin Synods either. So what do I do? I'm Catholic. Which is to say I belong to no organized religion but chaos almost too hard to label at all.

I wasn't thinking of the ELCA but rather the United Methodists, PCUSA, and the Episcopalians. All have had steep declines if you believe the numbers. All have had the apparent numbers extrapolated out to a not too distant future zero point. People have reasons for staying or going, and they don't necessarily follow the predictions.

 

[Halbhh]

The ELCA is indeed a mixed bag. I couldn't be ELCA if I was a Lutheran, but then again I don't know if I could be in the more agreeable to me Missouri or Wisconsin Synods either. So what do I do? I'm Catholic. Which is to say I belong to no organized religion but chaos almost too hard to label at all.

I wasn't thinking of the ELCA but rather the United Methodists, PCUSA, and the Episcopalians. All have had steep declines if you believe the numbers. All have had the apparent numbers extrapolated out to a not too distant future zero point. People have reasons for staying or going, and they don't necessarily follow the predictions.

Know what you mean by "chaos almost too hard to label at all." !

 

[Halbhh]

Itinerant preachers and tabloid religious magazine make false claims all the time. China, for example, is said to imprison many Christian leaders when in fact fewer than a half dozen have been jailed nationwide. The Communists are much more subtle than is perceived. They use economic pressures rather than force to nudge Christians and Christian leaders to their way of thinking. Ignorance of policies and real numbers leads to dangerous misconceptions.

Well, we do get information like this showing up regularly --

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-church-fined-zanzibar-church-closed.8077745/

The effort is to remove competition to the ruling Party, really to make the Party to be the Way, the Truth, and the Life for Chinese people, in a sense. They've said so, in different wording. They have an explicit aim to remake Chinese Christianity even with a new version of the Bible, so that it 'supports Chinese values', meaning it won't compete with the party. The actions against Christians are not minor, and also are increasing.

 

[Choir Loft]

Statistics released about church attendance almost never include monetary factors; expenses v. income, overall contributions, salaries and missions, that sort of thing.

Nearly every church has an obscene amount of debt. Many of the note holders are supposed to be 'Christian' finance companies. (Sometimes I think businesses add the moniker Christian to their name or corporate vision statement just to get business.) I have no figures for this, but think it would be amusing to learn just how much debt has been incurred.

Locally, my wife and I moved from one church to another like religious vagrants. Each time we met other couples and it seemed as though we were all some sort of refugee club. You see, each church we landed in (minimum 2 years attendance - not just one or two visits) had some sort of building project or some sort of 'rescue the debt' program going on. It was constant and continuous and consistent with all churches. Each one was in the hole 3-4 million.

One church issued a bond sale thinking they'd make money on both ends. First from the bonds and second from 10% of the interest they paid to bond holders. The schemes for siphoning money away from the members were insidious and uninspiring.

Considering the constant ongoing pleas for donations, one wonders how churches have kept going this long. It should also be considered that they violate the Word of God when they do this.

For instance, they nearly always ask for "pledges" of a certain amount. The request is justified by expenses of the venue and staff yet God's written statements about this are totally ignored. Try to remind them of this and you'll be labeled a loose canon.

Church leaders only quote or follow the Bible so long as it suits their purposes.

Do not be one who shakes hands in pledge or puts up security for debts;
- Prov. 22:26

All you need to say is simply 'Yes' or 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
- Jesus as quoted by Matthew 5:37

Apparently its fine to use Jesus' name for all sorts of things except when money money is involved. At that point His words are conveniently forgotten. (Matthew 13:22)

I'd really like to see a statistical analysis on that one.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...