Attack on Israelis in Jerusalem

Zeek · Nov 25, 2014

Been away for a bit....interesting reading.

I'm a Christian and I am a Zionist and I totally support the Jewish State of Israel without equivocation, prejudice or any agenda, (Christian or otherwise).

I also totally distance myself from everything Harvester has spouted.

I think even the OP was used as a pretext for putting the Palestinian cause...some people cannot bring themselves to condemn evil without bringing their agenda to the table...pretty sad really.

TG123 · Nov 25, 2014

Zeek said:
Been away for a bit....interesting reading.

I'm a Christian and I am a Zionist and I totally support the Jewish State of Israel without equivocation, prejudice or any agenda, (Christian or otherwise).

I also totally distance myself from everything Harvester has spouted.

I think even the OP was used as a pretext for putting the Palestinian cause...some people cannot bring themselves to condemn evil without bringing their agenda to the table...pretty sad really.

You just brought forward the Israeli cause in your post, and you hypocritically attack me for putting the Palestinian one?

I condemn all attacks against civilians, regardless of whether they are Palestinian or Israeli. I condemned the car attacks on Israelis last month, and I condemn the horrific synagogue attack this month, as well as other attacks that were perpetrated against Israelis by Palestinians. These were criminal, evil, and unjustifiable actions. That does not mean I will support Israeli attacks on Palestinians.

I have yet to see you speak out against Israeli army and settler crimes against Palestinians.

harvester77 · Nov 25, 2014

Zeek said:
Been away for a bit....interesting reading.

I'm a Christian and I am a Zionist and I totally support the Jewish State of Israel without equivocation, prejudice or any agenda, (Christian or otherwise).

I also totally distance myself from everything Harvester has spouted.

I think even the OP was used as a pretext for putting the Palestinian cause...some people cannot bring themselves to condemn evil without bringing their agenda to the table...pretty sad really.

Ican never umderstand a Christian Zionist. Jesus came with peace everything happening there is against what jesus taught. We must love our neighbour?

LoAmmi · Nov 25, 2014

harvester77 said:
Ican never umderstand a Christian Zionist. Jesus came with peace everything happening there is against what jesus taught. We must love our neighbour?

What are your feelings towards your Christian ancestors who saw no problem with throwing Jews into ghettos, depriving them of any kind of rights, and running vicious pogroms with the intent of killing them and forcing them from the country? The same level of vitriol?

Are there those who identify as Zionists who do bad things? Of course. Are there people who identify as Christians who do bad things? Of course.

TG123 · Nov 25, 2014

Shalom, LoAmmi. I am not harvester, but please allow to respond to your post also.

LoAmmi said:
What are your feelings towards your Christian ancestors who saw no problem with throwing Jews into ghettos, depriving them of any kind of rights, and running vicious pogroms with the intent of killing them and forcing them from the country? The same level of vitriol?

They were despicable criminals and thugs who abused their faith to harm and tyrannize their innocent Jewish neighbours. Hopefully they repented before dying. If not, they are in hell.

LoAmmi said:
Are there those who identify as Zionists who do bad things? Of course. Are there people who identify as Christians who do bad things? Of course.

Amen. I couldn't agree more.

mmksparbud · Nov 25, 2014

Can't go back and change the past--but the whole Palestinian thing wouldn't be here if it hadn't been for the British stepping in and setting it up. Philistines, Palestines----Under either name, they have tried to wipe out Israel. The land of Canaan was given to the Jews--The Philistines and Israelis have been fighting each other ever since--don't look for any change in that real soon! The whole area became Palestine by name after the Jewish nation dispersed, but there was always a Jewish presence there, the Jews did not completely disappear as some people think, Jerusalem was till Jewish.--It all came under the rule of the Ottoman Empire for a very long time and there was no Palestine, and in the 20's came under the jurisdiction of the British and French who fought over it and it all gets quite legal and complicated with a bunch of Legal mandates between the British, French and the Arab states with one Arab family in particular. It's not so simple as people think! Non of the Arab countries wanted to take the now called Palestinians--they left them there in a little corner.
The Israeli's had a chance to not have the Palestinians there when they won the war, but they allowed them to stay instead of kicking them out and then they decided that the land was really theirs since no one else wanted them so then they started to demand they have the land- and have been fighting Israel for it ever since.
Peace between them---good luck with that! No one is going to give in!
-

Zoness · Nov 25, 2014

harvester77 said:
I do not think it is out of context. I have been to Israel 4 times and Orthodox Jews do not support the genocide of what the atheists Zionists are doing which is precisely what they are. They are not real Jews. Orthodox Jews support the Torah and it says An Israeli will state will be built when Jesus return and they all come to him not in blood shed. Yes both sides. Form the record then deny Jesus completely. Homosexuality is rampant and so is money worshipping. I really not sure what Jesus would do if he was israel now? How comes the media never showed how a Zionist walked into a mosque in Hebron and killed Muslims worshipping? And settlers terrorising Muslims? Media is not right and little bit of travelling and research shows me that verse has something to do with those are pretend to be Jewish. No doubt after visiting Israel.

I reeeally enjoy that you specifically referred to the Zionists you doesn't like as Atheist because after all, non-theists are de facto evil. Nice try, there.

Jane_the_Bane · Nov 26, 2014

Zoness said:
I reeeally enjoy that you specifically referred to the Zionists you doesn't like as Atheist because after all, non-theists are de facto evil. Nice try, there.

Yes, that is the kind of ignorance that's really driving most atrocities, throughout human history.

I wonder if harvester77 is aware of the fact that accusations of atheism (along with accusations of being a bad patriot, a leftist or, for good measure, a rich capitalist) were a staple of anti-semitic sentiment in the early 20th century, contributing enormously to the holocaust.
After all, if they're all evil non-theists, they really ARE a threat to the blessed Fatherland, are they not?

LoveBeingAMuslimah · Nov 26, 2014

mmksparbud said:
Can't go back and change the past--but the whole Palestinian thing wouldn't be here if it hadn't been for the British stepping in and setting it up.

Yeah, what with the Balfour Declaration and all.

http://lostislamichistory.com/how-the-british-divided-up-the-arab-world

It is as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) prophesized: "The nations are about to call each other and set upon you, just as diners set upon food." It was said: "Will it be because of our small number that day?" He said: "Rather, on that day you will be many, but you will be like foam, like the foam on the river. And Allaah will remove the fear of you from the hearts of your enemies and will throw wahn (weakness) into your hearts." Someone said: "O Messenger of Allaah! What is wahn?" He said: "Love of the world and the hatred for death." [Authentic; Abu Dawood and Ahmad]

harvester77 · Nov 26, 2014

Jane_the_Bane said:
Yes, that is the kind of ignorance that's really driving most atrocities, throughout human history.

I wonder if harvester77 is aware of the fact that accusations of atheism (along with accusations of being a bad patriot, a leftist or, for good measure, a rich capitalist) were a staple of anti-semitic sentiment in the early 20th century, contributing enormously to the holocaust.
After all, if they're all evil non-theists, they really ARE a threat to the blessed Fatherland, are they not?

Far from ignorant just as there are religious people who caused trouble please learn your facts most evil comes from Zionist atheists. Wake up. You are not innocent either. We all need God. We need him a lot.

Zeek · Nov 28, 2014

TG123 said:
You just brought forward the Israeli cause in your post, and you hypocritically attack me for putting the Palestinian one?

Hardly hypocritical TG...I would not have made the point if you had simply stated your disgust at the murders, rather than a tactical pre-amble that sort of detracted from your statement.

I condemn all attacks against civilians, regardless of whether they are Palestinian or Israeli. I condemned the car attacks on Israelis last month, and I condemn the horrific synagogue attack this month, as well as other attacks that were perpetrated against Israelis by Palestinians. These were criminal, evil, and unjustifiable actions. That does not mean I will support Israeli attacks on Palestinians.

Good...I think the same.

I have yet to see you speak out against Israeli army and settler crimes against Palestinians.

Then you have not read everything I have posted, or been around when I have spoken to Jewish friends about some of the excesses some settlers have been involved with.

harvester77 · Nov 29, 2014

The Bible Vs. Modern Israel - English pravda.ru
I think many American evangelical Christians have got it all wrong.

TG123 · Nov 29, 2014

harvester77 said:
The Bible Vs. Modern Israel - English pravda.ru
I think many American evangelical Christians have got it all wrong.

This is a pretty good article, harvester.

I agree that the formation of the State of Israel in 1948 had nothing to do with Biblical prophecy, and that the unconditional support given by Christian Zionists is misguided at best.

I also believe that Israel is here to stay, and that historically, Jews as well as Muslims and Christians have a right to live there... as well as everywhere else in the middle east.

I oppose the mistreatment and abuses of Palestinians by the Israeli Government in the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem. I do not believe that a "solution" is to destroy it, though, and drive out its Jewish inhabitants, like Hamas is advocating.

The Nakba of Palestinians in 1948 was wrong. A Nakba of Israelis at any point in the future would be equally wrong.

There needs to be justice and equality for everyone in the Holy Land- Christians, Muslims, and Jews.

Until this happens, there will never be peace.

TG123 · Nov 29, 2014

Zeek said:
Hardly hypocritical TG...I would not have made the point if you had simply stated your disgust at the murders, rather than a tactical pre-amble that sort of detracted from your statement.

You could have made the point without the "tactical pre-amble" of saying you support Israel. Two can play at this game.

Zeek said:
Good...I think the same.

Thank you.

Zeek said:
Then you have not read everything I have posted, or been around when I have spoken to Jewish friends about some of the excesses some settlers have been involved with.

Glad to hear this. I would love to see your posts on this forum that say this, please provide some links. I am sorry I missed them.

Do you also criticize the conduct of Israeli soldiers who teargas and beat up non-violent protesters? Or shoot and sometimes kill those who are throwing rocks? Or destroy people's homes? Or turn a blind eye when Israeli settlers attack Palestinians- in some cases going as far as to actually arrest the Palestinian victims of the attacks rather than the settlers who perpetrate them?

danny ski · Nov 29, 2014

I disagree. There's no room for Christians and Muslims in the land of Israel. Maybe as tourists. One thing the last few decades made clear is that there will be no peace as long as we're sharing the land with other peoples.

Zoness · Nov 29, 2014

danny ski said:
I disagree. There's no room for Christians and Muslims in the land of Israel. Maybe as tourists. One thing the last few decades made clear is that there will be no peace as long as we're sharing the land with other peoples.

So now it seems to be a popularity contest; whichever loses must be violently removed. The last few decades seem to be that contest playing out; who will win? We don't know yet.

TG123 · Nov 29, 2014

danny ski said:
I disagree. There's no room for Christians and Muslims in the land of Israel. Maybe as tourists. One thing the last few decades made clear is that there will be no peace as long as we're sharing the land with other peoples.

How different is this from ISIS' view that there is no land for non-Muslims in the middle east?

LoAmmi · Nov 29, 2014

danny ski said:
I disagree. There's no room for Christians and Muslims in the land of Israel. Maybe as tourists. One thing the last few decades made clear is that there will be no peace as long as we're sharing the land with other peoples.

Leviticus 19
33 When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. 34 The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.

TG123 · Nov 29, 2014

Thanks, LoAmmi.

danny ski · Nov 30, 2014

LoAmmi said:
Leviticus 19
33 When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. 34 The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.

The foreigner also must respect our laws and religion and way of life. These foreigners will not even acknowledge our existence.

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