Athesist's articles

[Icystwolf]

Max, had a brief skim of your arguments.....I will read it further when I get some time besides my study to fully analyse them...but it's really humerous...I enjoyed that!

For example,

Now, before I continue, I wish to point out a few very important issues which nobody whom has argued against god and religion has ever mentioned. If you read the above verses very carefully you can get at least a small idea of what type of person Jesus was, if indeed those are his words. If he was god, or even the Son of God, he had to know that there is magnetic ore inside the earth. He knew there was all type of metal ore inside the earth. He had to know about molecular structures, if he was god. If he was the creator of mankind and the universe he had to know about protons and electrons, about atoms and quarks. He had to know about how photons work. He had to know about geometry and mathematics. He must have known about algebra and calculus. He must have known about economics and how wealth is created and how invention and innovation could improve the lives of his so called "loved ones".

My questions are these: Why did he not teach them how to make electric wires and mine magnets to produce electricity? Why did he not teach them to make light bulbs? Why did he not teach them to make metal pipes and a simple hand operated pump even, to pump water? Why did he not teach them how to make glass so they could have clear glass windows? Why did he not teach them how to build printing presses to print books to educated the masses/poor? Why did he not teach them how to build tractors and farm equipment? Why did he not teach them to build trains and automobiles? Why did he not teach them mathematics and reading skills? Why did he not teach them electronics and various useful trades? Why did he not teach them how to perform laser eye surgery? Why did he not teach them how to build pacemakers? Why did he not teach them how to build septic tanks and toilettes? Why did he not teach them how to build irrigation systems?

Why?
First of all, technology is not a necessity for humans to live. What is a necessity is love, and that is What Jesus show to all.

Second of all, you're forgetting that Jesus and God are not tools for humans. That whole argument up there is like the "give me a steak with chips now" argument shown to you before.
The whole question of what Jesus should have done, is seriously fundamentally flawed. Isn't that it? You have a greed that you want God to furful, yet blame him for not furfilling it, and thus proving he dosen't exist?

Jesus would have known what photons were, and back then they probably weren't even called photons. But Jesus knew what was best for us, not you or you or you...because Jesus is God, and he knows all. But that doesn't mean he has to share it for all.

God has all things under his hands, even time...the technology you see now are from God's works. But it is only after a period of time was this revealed. Hence the above statement is flawed, because it's based PURELY on the writers personal opinion that we should have better technology and knowledge before...rather than NOW.

Hence max, that whole paragraph is all about impatience...nothing more nothing less....

I had a tough fortnight, but had a good meal with friends and now the joke of the night!

Max, I don't have the time to go through those articles you wrote, but could you pin point the hardest argument you've got in there, that you would think will convert me to an athesist?

I want a challange!

 

[DialecticMaterialist]

Well if He was serious about us believing, it would be pretty compelling evidence.

 

[Arikay]

Yes it would be good evidence.

Also, some christians claim that the bible has amazing scientific knowledge, and that is evidence. When you look at it more indepth, the knowledge seems to go away. Thus, even some christians believe that a show of complex scientific knowledge would have been a good way to show divinity (or time travelitity )

BTW, its Atheist (no middle "s" )

 

[the_malevolent_milk_man]

It's a rather flakey arguement on the atheists (don't worry, you'll spell it right one day!) part but I see the logic. Technology makes our lives better by making us more efficient and capable of greater tasks. This in turn frees up time where we could be with other people or even praising God instead of working out in a field all day just so we don't starve to death. I can't think of anyway better to help a primitive group of people than by teaching them basic science and tool making to increase the quality of their lives. A few miracle cures and multiplying wine/fish is fleeting but gets attention. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach him to fish and you've fed him for life, or however the saying goes. If he had taught new knowledge and techniques that revolutionized the world then I'd be impressed and admire him. As it is he's just kinda preachy and has a bunch of myths clouding what he really did/said.

 

[Icystwolf]

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]....you guys can't even see through that.

Ok, so we have science and technology today, we have tractors and mills ...etc...

But are we all Christians?

No, because as soon as we have more time, due to technology, we use it up for our greed.

If you take a look at the earlier books in the Bible, God gave the people of Isreal time of peace, and in that time they turned to idols. It happens time after time after time.

It clearly shows that we humans can't control ourselves, hence we are not even worthy of recieveing such technology, else we'd use it for greed again.

God has his plans, and for him not to give out technology that fast is wise. Nothing fast will last that long.

These days you see weapons of mass destruction being built... would you rather see that being done 2000yrs ago?
Humans would probably kill themselves by then.....and not to mention, it serves no purpose for Jesus to be on earth.

Jesus came to save the weak and poor, giving all the equality of life on earth. Whats stopping that is human greed. Jesus came not to help the greedy, but the Needy...


Thats the difference.

 

[Arikay]

Speaking of weapons of mass destruction, what were the Plagues?

Technology is a huge field. It not only encompasses gadgets, but other things like medicines.
Jesus liked to heal people, but there is always that saying, "give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime."
Thus, his healings were nice and all, but he could have also taught them basic modern medicine that could have probably saved Millions.

 

[Icystwolf]

Arikay, you have a problem with understanding what the whole world wants and what we really want.

Humans live and die within 150yrs. If he had saved millions, will that make a difference?....well....we're still here today?

The reason Jesus healed was to prove he was the son of God. He taught about the word, and that was his whole purpose.

That argument you have there has the same basis for the jews not naming Jesus as the son of God. It was because, they thought that the son of God would lead them to victory over the Romans. Except he didn't, Jesus made Rome fall after their values were shaken with Christian values. The battles between gladiators were seen as immoral, and disgusting.

Though there was the dark age, it wasn't dark at all, it lead to new civilisations upholding Christian values, trade without war...etc.

But your argument stems out to being "If I was Jesus I would....", but then if you were Jesus and you knew that if you had taught modern medicine, you would have know the effects as well. You can think optimistically or pessimistically the outcome, but the truth of it could be a lot worst than what you imagined.

I do believe Jesus taught people to heal.......why that isn't being passed down? who knows....Paul and Peter did heal whilst they were preaching......maybe theres some medical scientific reason for that....

 

[Arikay]

The difference is that it could help people. give them a longer life.

However, in the christian perspective, it would give unbelievers a longer amount of time to come around to the church.

Im not saying that Jesus Had to teach them stuff. Just that, if he did, it would lend his omnipotence a bit more credibility, as a more complicated description would be much more testable than opinions.

However, one wouldn't expect him to not know modern medicine if he was just an enlightend man, but not the son of god with omnipotent knowledge.

 

[Icystwolf]

Say Jesus did know all, including modern medicine...but didn't tell or show......

does that mean he isn't the son of God?

If he heals, preaches a message that revolutionised the world in terms of morality...does that mean he was the son of God for only that time period?

I'm looking it at a different view, Jesus really did change all perspective of people, and these ideas of loving the enemy is not only revolutionary, but also what kept human civilisation from self destructing.

Of course in the past there have been bloodshed by greedy Christians, but the by definition might not even be considered christians as all....

As much as I'm learning about the pureform of atheist like yourself, you must also learn about the pureform of Christianity whom isn't lukewarm and has structural arguments and why we've chosen God....even though we've considered all the questions you've put up, in the past. What made us Christians and what made you Atheist......and the reasons involved.

 

[Arikay]

Yes, he did have revolutionary thinking for that area. So have others, like Buddha. He was a great man, but that doesn't make him the son of god.
Whether he is the son of god or not, is based more on belief, which is fine However, some would like more evidence. Some amazing science knowledge would possibly start to get there for the evidence.

 

[DialecticMaterialist]

You miss the point Icy, if God wants us to believe he could have easily demonstrated his vast knowledge on such issues. Such never happened: that makes your case less probable.

 

[DIISASTAH]

Icystwolf
Water of Tranquility

Posts: 456
Blessings: 1,169

I want a challange!

I am currently writting a paper for college on "is there a god?", this paper should give you a challenge