• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Atheism vs Theism confusion

CodyFaith

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 9, 2016
4,856
5,105
33
Canada
✟203,594.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
I thought a-
meant lack or without, or something like that I remember reading.

Just wikipedia'd, The term 'atheism' originated from the Greek ἄθεος (atheos), meaning "without god(s)", used as a pejorative term applied to those thought to reject the gods worshiped by the larger society.

So "a" does mean without, and theism being the belief in God, atheism is without the belief in God. If you are to take it just from that anyway.
I was without the belief in God, although was open to the possibility of there being a God, so I was an agnostic atheist.
 
Upvote 0

Hieronymus

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2016
8,428
3,005
54
the Hague NL
✟84,932.00
Country
Netherlands
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
So how many Gods are there without God?
I think that's zero.
It's "without God - ism", not "without - theism".
Because it's "atheos - ism".
The "a" says something about "theos", not about the "ism".

You can also see here in the comments people who i estimate older than you and TS use it in the same way i do (me being a grey haired 40+ guy), so it seems the meaning in daily use has shifted over time, causing confusion.
 
Upvote 0

HitchSlap

PROUDLY PRIMATE
Aug 6, 2012
14,723
5,468
✟288,596.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Agnosticism speaks to knowledge; as in, I don't know a god/s exists.

Atheism speaks to belief; as in, theists haven't met their burden of proof, therefore, I'm unconvinced a god/s exist.

It is within this context, that I consider myself an agnostic atheist.
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,630
4,676
Hudson
✟344,502.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single

An atheist has historically been someone who holds the belief that there is no God, and all this is just a poor attempt to redefine atheism as the default position in order to avoid shouldering the burden of proof. Holding any position other than the agnostic position of not knowing whether something is true requires evidence and thus shouldering burden of proof. Atheism is the negation of theism, so it is the equal and opposite position of theism, which is the belief that God exists, so it is the belief that God does not exist. It other words, the negation of 1 is -1, not 0, but you are trying to redefine atheism as the null position. When you redefine a position purely in terms of what it does not believe, then you quickly run to absurdities, such as babies and rocks, who also lack a belief, or with redefining aatheism as a lack of a lack of a belief in the existence of God, thus also escaping shouldering the burden of proof. The things that I know and the things that I believe are both based off of evidence, so redefining terms to make it about your confidence level rather than the actual positive position that you hold is a slight of hand that is entirely unhelpful and only muddles the waters. Every position other than agnosticism requires evidence, otherwise you would have no way of moving from agnosticism, so if you hold a position about whether or not God exists, then you should be willing to to provide evidence for it regardless of your confidence level, and if you don't know, then you don't have to provide evidence, but don't get into any of this nonsense about holding a position on something with having any evidence that it is true.
 
Reactions: Hieronymus
Upvote 0

HitchSlap

PROUDLY PRIMATE
Aug 6, 2012
14,723
5,468
✟288,596.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Atheism is the null position.
 
Reactions: muichimotsu
Upvote 0

HitchSlap

PROUDLY PRIMATE
Aug 6, 2012
14,723
5,468
✟288,596.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Yes, I know you'd like to think that, but atheist is against another position, so it can not be the null position by definition.
I'm not "against" anything. Would you call someone that doesn't collect stamps "against" someone that does?

I simply don't believe your claim that a god/s exist. The null hypothesis. If you think you have a case, then prove it.
 
Reactions: muichimotsu
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,630
4,676
Hudson
✟344,502.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
I'm not "against" anything. Would you call someone that doesn't collect stamps "against" someone that does?

I simply don't believe your claim that a god/s exist. The null hypothesis. If you think you have a case, then prove it.

Atheism is the negation of theism, so they are inherently against each other. You don't have to be against anything, but then again, you don't have to incorrectly identify as an atheist. Someone who doesn't collect stamps is not the negation of someone who collects stamps. If don't believe that God exists and you don't believe that God doesn't exist, then you don't know whether or not God exists, and you have not moved from agnosticism, which is the only null position. The moment you take any other position, such as atheism, then you are not longer at the null position.
 
Upvote 0

HitchSlap

PROUDLY PRIMATE
Aug 6, 2012
14,723
5,468
✟288,596.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Word salad.
 
Upvote 0

Davian

fallible
May 30, 2011
14,100
1,181
West Coast of Canada
✟46,103.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Ignostic
Marital Status
Married
An ideal position to take for those that lack evidence for their assertions.
So, then, where does the shortcoming fall - to those who extend their hand, or to those who refuse it?
The shortcoming lies with you. I don't refuse your offer; I find it to be incoherent.
 
Reactions: muichimotsu
Upvote 0

Davian

fallible
May 30, 2011
14,100
1,181
West Coast of Canada
✟46,103.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Ignostic
Marital Status
Married
Words have meanings, you see.
Words are defined by how we use them.
Rejecting theism is indeed atheism, because atheists believe God does not exists,<snip>
In this statement, you have allowed the [hypothetical] atheist to define the "God" that you believe in.

Does this work for you?
 
Upvote 0

Hieronymus

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2016
8,428
3,005
54
the Hague NL
✟84,932.00
Country
Netherlands
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I did read the damn topic. It's why I said you were dishonest with your definition.

Atheism is the null position. You claim God/s exist, prove it.
You did not read (or comprehend) the topic when you say that.
Goodbye.
 
Upvote 0