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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Atheism and nihilism
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<blockquote data-quote="stevevw" data-source="post: 75150051" data-attributes="member: 342064"><p>I think the moral truth is in all of us. It there to be discovered and acknowledged. The think about moral values is they are not some object that we can pick up and measure. So it is the language we use, the claims, and the values we appeal to whether one thinks that these values are subjective or not. The fact that we appeal to them and are even forced to go along with them even when we don't want to via our conscience is support for objective morals. </p><p> </p><p> Technically if people were to follow subjective morality properly they would be saying that they have a particular view but they understand and accept that others have their own views and none are really wrong. But as mentioned above most don't do that and impose their view on others like they hold the moral truth. Society does it in the laws they impose, organisations do it in the codes of conduct they impose on employees and international organizations do it in the Universal codes they impose on all cultures. </p><p></p><p> Or consequentialism which would be more relevant for reasoning what is best for a given situation or culture. Kantian ethics is more rule-based and doesn't allow reasoning. The moral right equates to following the rules or duties regardless of any reasoned outcome. Not just that but how do we determine the basis for reasoning as what can be used to measure morality is also subjective. Human wellbeing may be the basis but as with consequentialism, the who and what can be subjectively determined. Also one can ask who says that human wellbeing should be the basis. </p><p></p><p>Not that consequences or human wellbeing are not a way to determine what is moral. It is just hard to determine the 'what' and 'who' under subjective or relative morality beyond the individual or culture. </p><p> It makes a difference now in the way society uses certain moral standards for all despite subjective views in which some laws are based on, or for organization ethical codes or international codes. I think it allows for us to have some clear and common moral values that we can base things on rather than being open to having morality undermined by whoever can make the best case not necessarily what is best or morally right. Or having morality bought by those in power or with money. </p><p></p><p>In some ways, we are seeing morality being more and more objectified in the way people are taking stands that behaviour should conform to certain moral standards and not allowing any subjective views. We see it on social media in movements like MeTo, WOKE, shame culture and how people are virtue signalling. Everyone knows there are moral truth and people are acknowledging this more and more. </p><p></p><p>Though there is also a modernistic movement happening at the same time where people are questioning and criticizing everything claiming that there is no moral truth to the point that any traditional values are being rejected especially by the young and in Universities.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="stevevw, post: 75150051, member: 342064"] I think the moral truth is in all of us. It there to be discovered and acknowledged. The think about moral values is they are not some object that we can pick up and measure. So it is the language we use, the claims, and the values we appeal to whether one thinks that these values are subjective or not. The fact that we appeal to them and are even forced to go along with them even when we don't want to via our conscience is support for objective morals. Technically if people were to follow subjective morality properly they would be saying that they have a particular view but they understand and accept that others have their own views and none are really wrong. But as mentioned above most don't do that and impose their view on others like they hold the moral truth. Society does it in the laws they impose, organisations do it in the codes of conduct they impose on employees and international organizations do it in the Universal codes they impose on all cultures. Or consequentialism which would be more relevant for reasoning what is best for a given situation or culture. Kantian ethics is more rule-based and doesn't allow reasoning. The moral right equates to following the rules or duties regardless of any reasoned outcome. Not just that but how do we determine the basis for reasoning as what can be used to measure morality is also subjective. Human wellbeing may be the basis but as with consequentialism, the who and what can be subjectively determined. Also one can ask who says that human wellbeing should be the basis. Not that consequences or human wellbeing are not a way to determine what is moral. It is just hard to determine the 'what' and 'who' under subjective or relative morality beyond the individual or culture. It makes a difference now in the way society uses certain moral standards for all despite subjective views in which some laws are based on, or for organization ethical codes or international codes. I think it allows for us to have some clear and common moral values that we can base things on rather than being open to having morality undermined by whoever can make the best case not necessarily what is best or morally right. Or having morality bought by those in power or with money. In some ways, we are seeing morality being more and more objectified in the way people are taking stands that behaviour should conform to certain moral standards and not allowing any subjective views. We see it on social media in movements like MeTo, WOKE, shame culture[B] [/B]and how people are virtue signalling. Everyone knows there are moral truth and people are acknowledging this more and more. Though there is also a modernistic movement happening at the same time where people are questioning and criticizing everything claiming that there is no moral truth to the point that any traditional values are being rejected especially by the young and in Universities. [/QUOTE]
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