Atheism (2)

variant · Jul 6, 2012

Dave Ellis said:
Bingo!

However, that's part of where the difference between the religious and non-religious come in. Religion teaches faith is a virtue, where we completely reject that message.

Untrue to the bolded. Religion teaches that proper faith is a virtue. Having faith in a different God or explanation than the one presented is taught to be a grave sin.

This goes back to my previous post about why God should clarify which message about the right way to believe so that we don't get conflicting stories.

If God doesn’t clarify at least that, in a direct and non-ambiguous way, there is something seriously wrong with theologies that depend on the idea that it is our responsibility for what we believe or disbelieve.

Dave Ellis · Jul 6, 2012

gradyll said:
why not? I mean if you have no moral codes or laws, then let it all fly!

secondly, I wouldn't play it either after it was on fox news.

Sure, if you had no moral codes or laws, then let it all fly!

Luckily, Atheists posses those things, so it's a complete non-issue....

Dave Ellis · Jul 6, 2012

gradyll said:
prove athiests have morals.

The very thought of even asking that shows you're prejudiced and bigoted towards us.

Gadarene · Jul 6, 2012

Dave Ellis said:
There was a scene of a church burning in one bands music video.... that obviously means the entire festival is tarnished, right?

Not just the festival, but ALL OF ATHEISM!

Dave Ellis · Jul 6, 2012

Elioenai26 said:
You seem to be equating followers of Jesus with those who designate themselves as "Christians". The two are not synonomous.

A follower of Jesus Christ is going to live as He lived while in the world.

A person who claims they are a Christian and does not keep His commandments is a liar.

As much as I think Fred Phelps is an immoral fool, the one thing I do have to give him credit for is he knows his bible inside and out.

Everything he does, he backs up with the Bible. He takes a more literal view of the bible than you do. That would make him more of a christian than you, as he is adhering to more of it's plainly spelled out teachings.

Dave Ellis · Jul 6, 2012

variant said:
Untrue to the bolded. Religion teaches that proper faith is a virtue. Having faith in a different God or explanation than the one presented is taught to be a grave sin.

Yeah, whatever... you're playing word games.

Dave Ellis · Jul 6, 2012

Gadarene said:
Not just the festival, but ALL OF ATHEISM!

Oh yeah, that's right.

Because both you and I know... Because there was a music video with a burning church, that we're going to have to go spend our weekends burning down local churches now, right?

Geez, that would almost make us like Christian Crusaders if that was true! Except they burned down not only Churches, but libraries, universities, people's homes and more!

Gadarene · Jul 6, 2012

Dave Ellis said:
Oh yeah, that's right.

Because both you and I know... Because there was a music video with a burning church, that we're going to have to go spend our weekends burning down local churches now, right?

Now now, you know that under the Rules of Atheism we don't automatically do whatever....that band's name is (forgotten, also couldn't care) says.

We're supposed to do whatever Richard Dawkins says instead!

variant · Jul 6, 2012

Dave Ellis said:
Yeah, whatever... you're playing word games.

Word games? You’d have to explain it to me slowly.

I am saying that faith is the gravest sin if you choose the wrong god.

Which is why it makes it so odd that a supreme being would leave it up to people to have faith in what is right and give them little guidance as to what that is.

Dave Ellis · Jul 6, 2012

variant said:
Word games? Youd have to explain it to me slowly.

I am saying that faith is the gravest sin if you choose the wrong god.

Which is why it makes it so odd that a supreme being would leave it up to people to have faith in what is right and give them little guidance as to what that is.

I said religion teaches faith, you rejected that by saying religion teaches the "proper faith" and distracted from the actual point... Which was that we think faith is a bad thing regardless.

The word game comes from the fact that of course a religion is going to teach what it percieves as the "proper faith", that much is implied. Do you really think I'm arguing Christian Churches are teaching people to follow Mohammed? Of course not, they're teaching what they consider the true faith, so making that distinction to avoid the actual point is playing with words.

createdtoworship · Jul 6, 2012

Dave Ellis said:
The very thought of even asking that shows you're prejudiced and bigoted towards us.

prove it

createdtoworship · Jul 6, 2012

Dave Ellis said:
Sure, if you had no moral codes or laws, then let it all fly!

Luckily, Atheists posses those things, so it's a complete non-issue....

the fact that you are so willing to show athiests have a moral code, yet refuse to show the literature or the "commandments" by which you follow show that you have none.

Dave Ellis · Jul 6, 2012

gradyll said:
prove it

Do you deny we have morals?

Skavau · Jul 6, 2012

gradyll said:
the fact that you are so willing to show athiests have a moral code, yet refuse to show the literature or the "commandments" by which you follow show that you have none.

Atheists are not comparable to Christians.

Christians broadly are supposed to follow the same doctrine and believe in the same moral values. That is part of being a Christian. An atheist is someone who simply does not believe in a God(s). There is nothing else an atheist must have in common with another atheist.

Atheism is not a worldview. Not an ideology. Not a template for life. Stop arguing as if it is. It is just a descriptive term that refers to one solitary position on God.

Dave Ellis · Jul 6, 2012

gradyll said:
the fact that you are so willing to show athiests have a moral code, yet refuse to show the literature or the "commandments" by which you follow show that you have none.

Obedience is not morality. If you derive your morals from what you're told to do, then you are not necessarily moral and lack understanding of why things are moral and why they are not.

ToddNotTodd · Jul 6, 2012

gradyll said:
the fact that you are so willing to show athiests have a moral code, yet refuse to show the literature or the "commandments" by which you follow show that you have none.

There doesn't need to be any literature. And yet we still have moral codes.

Gadarene · Jul 6, 2012

gradyll said:
the fact that you are so willing to show athiests have a moral code, yet refuse to show the literature or the "commandments" by which you follow show that you have none.

Who says it needs to be written down? Do try and have a little imagination here, not everyone does things in exactly the same way as Christians.

variant · Jul 6, 2012

Dave Ellis said:
I said religion teaches faith, you rejected that by saying religion teaches the "proper faith" and distracted from the actual point... Which was that we think faith is a bad thing regardless.

The word game comes from the fact that of course a religion is going to teach what it percieves as the "proper faith", that much is implied. Do you really think I'm arguing Christian Churches are teaching people to follow Mohammed? Of course not, they're teaching what they consider the true faith, so making that distinction to avoid the actual point is playing with words.

Apologies I meant no hostility.

I simply think the point is easily missed (if implied) in your analysis.

The main point of faith is believeing without evidence, and the main problem with the lack of evidence is that it proves every viewpoint the viewer wants.

Religions love the idea of faith when it comes to their own religion and hate it when it comes to every other religion. It's a double standard that I wished to point out.

Looking at it from a non-believers perspective (where all faith is equal) this is a key point to why a lot atheists don't have or want any.

Dave Ellis · Jul 6, 2012

ToddNotTodd said:
There doesn't need to be any literature. And yet we still have moral codes.

It's also worth pointing out most Atheists do subscribe to some kind of philosophical system (i.e. Secular Humanism). However, again, it is not a system of commandments, and is instead more of a moral philosophy.

variant · Jul 6, 2012

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