Atheism (2)

Dave Ellis · Jun 20, 2012

gradyll said:
firstly, time is only the fourth dimension of 24 or some odd dimensions.

so one only need to be beyond the fourth dimension to be beyond time.

(see flatlanders on you tube for an illustration of dimension superiority)

secondly, Christ appeared in a closed upper room without going through the door. Again see flatlanders if you don't believe me on this. But all one need to do is be one dimension beyond the three dimensions of our universe.

included is flatland video

Dr Quantum - Flatland - YouTube

After watching your video, I stand by my earlier post.... Even using the demonstration within your video, the fact he possessed a sense of 3D in a 2D world, did not free him from the first two dimensions.

In fact, to use your argument, you must state that God exists within the 3D world and time as we know it, and does not transcend it.

As he exists as a being within the known world, and does not transcend it, he could not have created it.

Dave Ellis · Jun 20, 2012

gradyll said:
well it's about as likely that a tornado went through a junk yard and created a Boeing 747. But it is possible, I guess....I mean remember then that when this person is signing His/her name they must know exactly where the pen would start off and finish their name at the exact same spot as where the machine would start it's cycle at.....it is possible, but it is more plausible that it was a miracle.

Oh goody I love when creationists bring up Fred Hoyle's 747 Gambit!!

If you'll take a rational, critical view of the situation... to quote Richard Dawkins, God is the Ultimate 747.

God is an all powerful, all knowing, all seeing, omniscient, conscious, super-intelligent perfect being by most Christians definition. He's the creator of all, so therefore he is the most complex thing conceivable, as he understands all.

You're proposing he just happened to exist.

The fact that he's more complex than anything else, makes him the least likely thing conceivable that would just happen to exist without a cause.

So therefore, your attributing miracles to him is the least likely of all possible explanations.

The existence of God is far more implausible than your seismograph example. Therefore using him as the answer to it makes no logical sense. You need to prove that God exists.

Dave Ellis · Jun 20, 2012

gradyll said:
romans 1:20 I believe
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

here is an easier translation to read

For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

Captain Kirk 1:24 - Sometimes a feeling is all we humans have to go on

I can play this game too!

Dave Ellis · Jun 20, 2012

gradyll said:
I am just saying that the Christian faith has the answer to your question

No, it doesn't. It has an answer which it can't justify or demonstrate.

That's not an answer, that's a hypothesis.... and a poorly backed one at that.

Dave Ellis · Jun 20, 2012

gradyll said:
nope, but you were going in circles I thought we were done with the causation argument. You still want to get owned by this idea? Go ahead.

Um... the only way you'll "own" him is for you to demonstrate your point is correct. You haven't even started to do that.

Sorry to say.... So far, you're getting owned

someguy14 · Jun 20, 2012

God is good.

Dave Ellis · Jun 20, 2012

Baam said:
im eating a atheist pizza, cos pizzas dont believe in deities

Atheist Pizza's taste better

Going Merry · Jun 20, 2012

pizza can never be a theist.
neither can tables ever be married to other tables.
Maybe a chair

Davian · Jun 20, 2012

gradyll said:
It's not my Bible, it's God's Bible.

God has been benched for having a problem with his existence. You will have to be his pinch hitter. I know you haven't made any hits lately, but a lot is riding on this - don't let Him down.

gradyll said:
Besides your the one with the problem with the Bible.

No problem. It's just a book.

Davian · Jun 20, 2012

gradyll said:
okay how about a boeing 747 coming out of a tornado wrecked junk yard.

thats the evidence for design.

All you have to say is, there is a designer.

I will take it from there.

Is the absence of 747s assembled by tornados evidence for the absence of design?

Davian · Jun 20, 2012

someguy14 said:
God is good.

God is cake and ice cream.

What does that have to do with atheism?

Dave Ellis · Jun 20, 2012

gradyll said:
okay how about a boeing 747 coming out of a tornado wrecked junk yard.

thats the evidence for design.

All you have to say is, there is a designer.

I will take it from there.

Having a 747 come out of a tornado wrecked junkyard is strong evidence AGAINST design.

The flaw in your argument comes from your total lack of understanding of Natural Selection.

You are correct in saying that every living thing is statistically improbable... however your God is more improbable than any of them.

The flaw in your argument is that life emerged from very simple roots, not complex ones. Even though we don't understand the exact process that caused life to originate, we do know all the building blocks are present on earth. While it's improbable that life would form, it's obvious that it did and all the necessary tools for it are present.

From there it grew, diversified and became complex. Life never started as the 747, it started as amino acids and protein.

On the flip side, the creationism argument is the equivalent of a tornado hitting the same scrapyard and assembling a fleet of 787's along with the manufacturing plant

The 747 Argument is an argument against intelligent design, not an argument in favour of it.... that's why I love when creationists bring it up.

Dave Ellis · Jun 21, 2012

gradyll said:
It's not my Bible, it's God's Bible. Besides your the one with the problem with the Bible.

No, actually it's your bible.

Man wrote it, you bought it

Dave Ellis · Jun 21, 2012

someguy14 said:
God is good.

I'll fix your typo for you

Good is good.

I think that we can all agree on.

Eudaimonist · Jun 21, 2012

Baam said:
im eating a atheist pizza, cos pizzas dont believe in deities

So, you are saying that Christians feast on the corpses of atheists? :o

eudaimonia,

Mark

createdtoworship · Jun 21, 2012

Dave Ellis said:
No, actually it's your bible.

Man wrote it, you bought it

God provided the money

createdtoworship · Jun 21, 2012

Dave Ellis said:
Having a 747 come out of a tornado wrecked junkyard is strong evidence AGAINST design.

The flaw in your argument comes from your total lack of understanding of Natural Selection.

You are correct in saying that every living thing is statistically improbable... however your God is more improbable than any of them.

The flaw in your argument is that life emerged from very simple roots, not complex ones. Even though we don't understand the exact process that caused life to originate, we do know all the building blocks are present on earth. While it's improbable that life would form, it's obvious that it did and all the necessary tools for it are present.

From there it grew, diversified and became complex. Life never started as the 747, it started as amino acids and protein.

On the flip side, the creationism argument is the equivalent of a tornado hitting the same scrapyard and assembling a fleet of 787's along with the manufacturing plant

The 747 Argument is an argument against intelligent design, not an argument in favour of it.... that's why I love when creationists bring it up.

you assume the age dating factors of the Bible untrue. Adam was fully developed when he was created. Eve too. They were not embryos that had to grow to full state. Also the trees, they were created full grown. Why not create a world with age dating factors in it.

createdtoworship · Jun 21, 2012

Davian said:
Is the absence of 747s assembled by tornados evidence for the absence of design?

at least you are actually stating it's design. Most in this forum won't even do that. Which is quite ridiculous.

createdtoworship · Jun 21, 2012

someguy14 said:
God is good.

KCfromNC · Jun 21, 2012

gradyll said:
no, there are many causations of this act only one agent. Your that agent who is ultimately responsible for the trigger pulling and the gun is responsible for causing the bullet, and the bullet is responsible for doing damage to the brain tissue of another person. But the agent is responsible for the chain reaction that brought about the death of a person.

Why is god not responsible, since in your opinion we can trace the chain of causality all the way back to her? Seems that humans are just another in the long string of causes tracing all the way back to the alleged creation of the universe by this all-powerful agent so we're no more responsible than the laws of physics. Pretending otherwise is just special pleading - it shows you're being awfully selective is what you'll accept as a cause or not.

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