At what point does heretical beliefs cross the line into "non christian"?

[Sammy-San]

Unlike Judaism or Islam (except for Messianic Jews-both of those groups definitley arent Christian-since they deny either the divinity or Crucifixion of Christ), Mormons believe in Jesus being God, but since they have unbibical beliefs-like Joseph Smith being the last prophet of God, theyre not considered true christians. (Mormons view themselves as a Christian sect-but most Christians view them as a different religion.)

But Catholics and the Orthodox Church also have many unbibical beliefs (their theological views on Mary stand out to me the most)-but theyre still considered Christians by most people. Ive heard some say theyre not true Christians but not that many.

So when it comes to one group having heretical beliefs about Jesus or theology regarding the Bible, at what point does those beliefs cross the line into their religion/sect being non-christian?

 

[Neogaia777]

So when it comes to one group having heretical beliefs about Jesus or theology regarding the Bible, at what point does those beliefs cross the line into their religion/sect being non-christian?

Well, you'd have to define what act's qualify, or un-qualify sects as being true Christianity or not?

Would you like to start a list?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Well, you'd have to define what act's qualify, or un-qualify sects as being true Christianity or not?

Would you like to start a list?

God Bless!

I'll start with one (or a couple) I would say Christians who believe they have to go to a special place or location to feel more holy, or closer to God, are not practicing true Christianity and are in danger of idol worship and those who do not believe that we (our bodies) are the modern day temples for God, and true Christians would see no point to the temple being re-built in Jerusalem, because true Christians believe that God is everywhere, therefore he's always right where were at, so there's no special place we have to go or have, other than a moment alone in your private room, in order to talk/pray to God...

 

[BryanW92]

Idolatry, belief in Karma or reincarnation, rejection of the Trinity, rejection of the Resurrection, claims of the divinity of man, just to name a few big ones.

We don't reject Mormonism as a Christian denomination because of Joseph Smith's claims to be a prophet. It is because of their belief in the divinity of man and the humanity of God, along with their rejection of the resurrection and ascension and the Second Coming of Christ in the Americas.

 

[BryanW92]

I'll start with one (or a couple) I would say Christians who believe they have to go to a special place or location to feel more holy, or closer to God, are not practicing true Christianity and are in danger of idol worship and those who do not believe that we (our bodies) are the modern day temples for God, and true Christians would see no point to the temple being re-built in Jerusalem, because true Christians believe that God is everywhere, therefore he's always right where were at, so there's no special place we have to go or have, other than a moment alone in your private room, in order to talk/pray to God...

The "Special Place" to feel closer to God is not because God is closer to that place. It is because you can feel closer there. Its not non-Christian, nor is it idolatry--unless there is a big statue of Jesus there that you pray TO as if it was Jesus.

 

[Sammy-San]

Idolatry, belief in Karma or reincarnation, rejection of the Trinity, rejection of the Resurrection, claims of the divinity of man, just to name a few big ones.

We don't reject Mormonism as a Christian denomination because of Joseph Smith's claims to be a prophet. It is because of their belief in the divinity of man and the humanity of God, along with their rejection of the resurrection and ascension and the Second Coming of Christ in the Americas.

Why do Mormon websites claim they believe Jesus is God? Heres an example of one. What do Mormons believe about Jesus Christ? Do Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God? | Mormon.org

 

[GoingByzantine]

What Catholics and Orthodox have told you that they are not really Christian?

Just because someone does not hold to a certain Christian worldview (that has only popped up recently) does not mean that they are not a Christian. Do me a solid and pop over to TAW or OBOB sometime, then we can discuss what Catholics and Orthodox really believe.

 

[Sammy-San]

What Catholics and Orthodox have told you that they are not really Christian?

Just because someone does not hold to a certain Christian worldview (that has only popped up recently) does not mean that they are not a Christian. Do me a solid and pop over to TAW or OBOB sometime, then we can discuss what Catholics and Orthodox really believe.

None. But I've heard people say they arent Christian.

 

[GoingByzantine]

None. But I've heard people say they arent Christian.

That is very sad, hopefully they will see the light.

 

[BryanW92]

Why do Mormon websites claim they believe Jesus is God? Heres an example of one. What do Mormons believe about Jesus Christ? Do Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God? | Mormon.org

Web sites never distort the truth?

I almost became a Mormon back when I first became a Christian. I credit them with contributing the human component of leading me to Christ. As I spoke to them and they taught me what they teach new converts, I began to question some things. They visited me every Saturday for a month and I studied in between those visits. I had questions. They answered most, but were evasive on others. Finally, at our last meeting, I asked them the hard questions. They tried to evade but I pressed for an answer. Finally, they said that I would come to accept the things I did not accept in time if I just joined. I said that I had to know first and they got mad and left. I never heard from them again.

The rank-and-file Mormon is nominally a Christian. That is what is taught to the new members and those who are not progressing to Elder. But, the really deep stuff is very non-Christian. It is the core of their faith, even though most of them don't know much about it. Remember that they set themselves apart from the "corrupted church" because they have the latter-day prophecies that are a new revelation of Jesus Christ.

Like Mohammed a millenium before, Joseph Smith knew that Jesus was real and that he was what he said he was. They knew that they could not create a new religion that would overcome Christ, so they added him to the one they made up. Muslims and Mormons profess to believe in Jesus Christ, but the Jesus they believe in is not the Christ of orthodox Christianity.

 

[Sammy-San]

Web sites never distort the truth?

I almost became a Mormon back when I first became a Christian. I credit them with contributing the human component of leading me to Christ. As I spoke to them and they taught me what they teach new converts, I began to question some things. They visited me every Saturday for a month and I studied in between those visits. I had questions. They answered most, but were evasive on others. Finally, at our last meeting, I asked them the hard questions. They tried to evade but I pressed for an answer. Finally, they said that I would come to accept the things I did not accept in time if I just joined. I said that I had to know first and they got mad and left. I never heard from them again.

The rank-and-file Mormon is nominally a Christian. That is what is taught to the new members and those who are not progressing to Elder. But, the really deep stuff is very non-Christian. It is the core of their faith, even though most of them don't know much about it. Remember that they set themselves apart from the "corrupted church" because they have the latter-day prophecies that are a new revelation of Jesus Christ.

Like Mohammed a millenium before, Joseph Smith knew that Jesus was real and that he was what he said he was. They knew that they could not create a new religion that would overcome Christ, so they added him to the one they made up. Muslims and Mormons profess to believe in Jesus Christ, but the Jesus they believe in is not the Christ of orthodox Christianity.

Then where did you read Mormons believe Jesus isnt God? Im not trying to sound ignorant-I just dont know that much about their beliefs.

 

[BryanW92]

Then where did you read Mormons believe Jesus isnt God? Im not trying to sound ignorant-I just dont know that much about their beliefs.

They quote Hebrews as saying that the Father is father of all spirits. They say that Jesus is the brother of Satan, as we are all the brothers of Satan. Therefore, Jesus is a created being and is not God. But, he is the most perfect of created beings and, one day, we shall be as Jesus is and can be the King of a world as Satan is for this one and Jesus one day will be.

 

[Neogaia777]

None of us deserve to be called to be Christians, but those who profess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, are accepted by him, he knows were sinners and going to get things wrong and make mistakes, but those who profess him (His, Jesus name) will not only make it into heaven but have a great reward in heaven, we will know the truth in heaven, all will be set right there...

God Bless!

 

[Sammy-San]

They quote Hebrews as saying that the Father is father of all spirits. They say that Jesus is the brother of Satan, as we are all the brothers of Satan. Therefore, Jesus is a created being and is not God. But, he is the most perfect of created beings and, one day, we shall be as Jesus is and can be the King of a world as Satan is for this one and Jesus one day will be.

So basically Mormons view Jesus as a prophet like Muslims view him?

 

[BryanW92]

So basically Mormons view Jesus as a prophet like Muslims view him?

No. They see him as a brother of Satan, a created being.

 

[Job8]

So when it comes to one group having heretical beliefs about Jesus or theology regarding the Bible, at what point does those beliefs cross the line into their religion/sect being non-christian?

The apostle Paul tells us in Galatians 1:6-9 very clearly that if ANYONE -- even an angel from heaven -- brings ANOTHER GOSPEL -- let him be accursed:

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Notice that Paul repeats himself for emphasis. So what is "another Gospel"? Another Gospel is one that:

1. Rejects the tri-unity of the Godhead (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit)

2. Rejects the full humanity and full Deity of Christ -- that He is God

3. Rejects salvation by GRACE THROUGH FAITH (Eph 2:8,9) and adds works

4. Teaches that water baptism is necessary for salvation

5. Teaches that the Bible is NOT inspired, inerrant, and infallible, and we need other "revelations".

6. Teaches that God elects some men to Heaven, and others to Hell.

7. Teaches that Hell -- the Lake of Fire -- is not real and eternal and that all men will go to Heaven whether they repent and saved or not.

8. Teaches that no one will go to Heaven other than 144,000

9. Teaches that ETERNAL LIFE IS NOT A GIFT AND NOT ETERNAL. That Christians can "lose" their salvation.

10. Teaches that Christians must continue to practice what is taught in the Law of Moses.

An angel came to Muhammad as well as to Joseph Smith and brought "another gospel". So we are to carefully examine all teachers and all teachings in the light of Scripture.

 

[Sammy-San]

No. They see him as a brother of Satan, a created being.

A literal brother of Satan? So Mormons believe God had two biological sons? I think I read that somewhere, but im not sure if its true that they really believe that, or not.

 

[BryanW92]

A literal brother of Satan? So Mormons believe God had two biological sons? I think I read that somewhere, but im not sure if its true that they really believe that, or not.

Biological sons? No. They are two equal created beings, like super-angels.

 

[JLR1300]

One of the biggest problems with Catholicism is the question of authority. The way they have things set up even the words of Jesus himself matter little. That is because of two things. 1. They believe that Church Tradition is on the same level as Scripture. So you can quote scripture to them all day long but if it goes against Catholic tradition they could care less. They will pretend to care what the scripture says but really they only care what the tradition of the Catholic church is. This is because they believe that Scripture means what the Catholic church has traditionally interpreted it to mean. Whatever the Catholic councils of the past have said that a scripture means...that is what it means.
2. The infallibility of the Pope when he speaks ex cathedra. They wrongly imagine that when the Pope makes an official statement it cannot be wrong. To them, the Pope is Christ on earth... that is, he speaks for Christ. So you can quote something Jesus said that is as clear as day but they will never believe it if it goes against something a Pope has said.

Now in Matthew 23:9 Jesus was speaking of spiritual things and about spiritual leaders not daily living... that is the context. And he told his followers ...do not call anyone Father. Now since the context was spiritual things, when Jesus said do not call anyone Father He obviously meant don't call them Father in a spiritual sense. Don't give them an official spiritual title "Father". The context isn't about children and what they call their dad. That isn't the context. But of course, the Catholics could care less what Jesus said because that goes against their church's tradition. They go right ahead and call their teachers "Father" in a spiritual sense and as an official title in the church....which is the very thing Christ meant for us not to do. But if you quote this scripture to them they will just blow it off even though it is the words of Jesus. We are not to call anyone Teacher in a spiritual sense either. Christ is our only true spiritual teacher.

Now in the attempt to defeat this verse....They will just say.... "do you call your dad father?" even though if they knew the Bible well they would know that the context of Jesus' statement was about calling someone Father in the spiritual sense as a religious title. The real reason they don't care what Jesus says in that verse is because it goes against their church's tradition. what did Jesus say about that?

Mark 7:13 "Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."

Never nullify the word of God and Christ because of Tradition. We all have been guilty of that to some extent but at least we haven't made it an official doctrine of the church that scripture and church tradition are equal.

Now just as Mormons have a certain face that they show everyone but if you join the church you find out later what they really believe.... Catholics will occasionally try to deny some of the things I said but if you really study you will find out what they really believe.

 

[Sammy-San]

Biological sons? No. They are two equal created beings, like super-angels.

Why do you think so many false religions believe in Jesus and borrowed elements of Christianity into their religion? Islam, Mormonism, even Rastafarianism (Jamaican religion who worships that Ethiopian leader)-even though they dont believe in the Jesus of the Bible and he's not the main person they follow, and have a lot of unbibical practices/theological stances, still borrowed a lot from the bible-characters and places in the bible, including Jesus and other significant biblical figures. I think it's rather strange that Christianity isnt the only religion that believes in Jesus.