• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

At What Point Do You Think You Are Truly Saved?

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Site Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,476
USA
✟700,228.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
Why all the references concerning hell for eternity?

Well then, I suppose we're right back around to those who choose to reject the gift of grace that God extends to them, deciding that eternal separation from him would be preferable.
 
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Site Supporter
May 28, 2018
14,321
6,395
69
Pennsylvania
✟964,646.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed

I feel like I haven't gotten across this mindset in you and so many others, that colors all your perceptions, and provides false assumptions that bring you logically to false conclusions. You keep saying such things as, "If it were so, there would be no need for...", and nothing I say or others say seem to get through to you.

God being the cause of all things does NOT relinquish us from our responsibility, nor our motivation, for doing the things we must do. We MUST obey, we MUST desire Him, we MUST have faith, we MUST abide in Him. To be able to act in and of myself (apart from Him), is to live as the unsaved. I am NOT able to continue in that, if I am one of the elect, and God willing, I will not do so. OF COURSE, I must choose to do what is right! How can I do otherwise, if I love Him???

But if I pursue obedience as mere acquiescence or compliance, I am doing exactly that, being my own person, trying to be good enough, trying to break even. There is no such thing as being "good enough". The bed is too short, the blanket too narrow with which to cover oneself.

"Apart from me you can do nothing."
 
Reactions: RickReads
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,393
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,356.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yeah, I recall reading those, would have given a totally different conclusion than the finalized canon.
Don't forget to thank the Catholics for the good work they did on the canon. Awesome job!
 
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,393
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,356.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I still wonder whether that reference to "other scriptures" is declaring the Apostle Paul's writings to be scripture as well.

2 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
 
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,393
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,356.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Nice work, I think I'll copy it. But Ephesus 431 condemned Pelagianism as heresy.
That's the funny thing about heresy. It boils down to a doctrinal disagreement. The majority opinion claims the other opinion as heresy. It seems even Jesus was a heretic to the Pharisees. As were all the Apostles.
 
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,393
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,356.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Man loves sin and hates God.
It seems to me that sin is more self-love than God-hate.
A sinner does not necessarily hate God.
Christians often love God and love sin. (moral conflict)

Romans 7:19
For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.
 
Reactions: Jesus is YHWH
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Site Supporter
May 28, 2018
14,321
6,395
69
Pennsylvania
✟964,646.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
I think we are ragamuffins.
We arrive at heaven's gate with nothing but dirty rags to cover our nakedness.
And the Father runs to embrace us.
Of course! (that is, as far as the point you mean to make, though I must say we arrive covered in Christ's righteousness). All the things we do right are God doing them; our regeneration, our changed heart, our source of living water, our everlasting faith by the work of the Holy Spirit, having become one with Christ, are the work of God, not of ourselves.
 
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Site Supporter
May 28, 2018
14,321
6,395
69
Pennsylvania
✟964,646.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
Once you accept Jesus as your saviour,You are truly saved.
Because you accepted him, or because he saved you? Tell me where in the bible it talks about "accepting" him as savior. Receive, yes, but accept?? Do you really think we have the integrity in and of ourselves that our decision merits such a thing?
 
Upvote 0

Studyman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,562
709
66
Michigan
✟499,958.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Law demands free will. But the gospel is not law.

There is no Gospel without God or His Law. Submitting oneself to the God of the Bible is the only perfect righteous expression of free will.
 
Upvote 0

Psalm 27

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2020
1,130
541
Uk
✟137,222.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Private
We have a saying in the north.
Many are cold, but few are frozen. - lol
My pastor used to say that
Also, ‘first He catches the fish, then He guts them!’
 
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

Psalm 27

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2020
1,130
541
Uk
✟137,222.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Private
Without any explanation, this quote is pretty meaningless.
Imo, The Lord calls everyone, but not all of us are willing to go through the narrow gate. Although I don’t actually believe in predestination, there are scriptures suggesting it, so...
 
Upvote 0

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,879
USA
✟580,230.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There is no Gospel without God or His Law. Submitting oneself to the God of the Bible is the only perfect righteous expression of free will.
But, sinners hate God and choose only idols left to themselves. Only after God saves a sinner can they see the true Christ and desire him. We are saved by grace before we can believe.
 
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,393
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,356.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There is no Gospel without God or His Law. Submitting oneself to the God of the Bible is the only perfect righteous expression of free will.
Galatians 3:12
The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”

Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
 
Upvote 0

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,879
USA
✟580,230.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Well then, I suppose we're right back around to those who choose to reject the gift of grace that God extends to them, deciding that eternal separation from him would be preferable.
God does not offer salvation to anyone. He preaches (announces) the salvation of believers. Those who choose to believe don't believe or they would not need to choose. Salvation is a supernatural experience that causes the saved to believe.
 
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,393
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,356.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
But, sinners hate God and choose only idols left to themselves. Only after God saves a sinner can they see the true Christ and desire him. We are saved by grace before we can believe.
The person who hates God is angry toward Him.
Not every sinner is angry at God. Few actually.

Most are indifferent and feel self-sufficient, or ambivalent toward God.
Viewing faith as a crutch needed by those who need such things.

Faith is then viewed by them as a personal weakness in believers.
None of this equates to hating God. Why hate a phantom?
The equivalent of shadow boxing.

It seems to me that sin is more self-love than God-hate.
A sinner does not necessarily hate God.
Christians often love God and love sin. (moral conflict)

Romans 7:19
For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.
 
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,393
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,356.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God does not offer salvation to anyone. He preaches (announces) the salvation of believers. Those who choose to believe don't believe or they would not need to choose. Salvation is a supernatural experience that causes the saved to believe.
Not just believers. Salvation is announced to everyone.
Everyone is saved. Most just don't know it yet. (they will)

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
 
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,393
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,356.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
My pastor used to say that
Also, ‘first He catches the fish, then He guts them!’
I've heard that one too.
But they used the word "cleans" rather than "guts".
In reference to two churches in an area that worked together in a sense.
One with a talent for evangelism and the other with a talent for discipleship.
Saying: "They catch 'em and we clean 'em."
 
Reactions: Psalm 27
Upvote 0

fwGod

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2005
1,404
530
✟72,762.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Are you saved when you're
Called
Called and Chosen
Called, Chosen and Faithful

Peace be with all those in the body of Christ
2 Thes.2:13-14 says

13 But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The apostle Paul wrote that after he'd mentioned those who don't believe the truth because they don't receive the love of the truth that they be saved, vs.12,10. So the verses and chapter of Paul echos what Jesus had said in John 3.
 
Upvote 0