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Why all the references concerning hell for eternity?
The problem I see with this interpretation is the surrounding context and the implications of it. John 15:6 is not the only verse in that message that indicates the possibility of loss of salvation. First you have verse 2. He (The Father) cuts off every branch IN ME that beareth not fruit. Then verse 4 where He tells His 11 faithful apostles to abide in Him. Just Him telling them to abide in Him suggests the possibility of them being capable of not abiding in Him otherwise it would be pointless to say it. Then again in verse 4 He says “unless you abide in Me” reinforcing the idea that they are capable of failing to abide in Him. Then in verse 5 He tells them why they must abide in Him “for apart from Me you can do nothing”. This is another indication that they are capable of failing to abide in Him. Now this whole message has been directed at His apostles and because people hold to eternal security so tightly they refuse to admit that verse 6 is also directed towards them even though all the implications in the surrounding verses indicate that these men are capable of failing to abide in Him. Even verse 7 is a huge indication when He says “IF you abide in Me”. I mean verse after verse it’s one implication after another that these 11 faithful men were capable of failing to abide in Him and people just blind themselves and try so hard to interpret this passage of scripture to coincide with their doctrine of eternal security. This is the primary problem with many reformed Christians is they let their doctrines define the scriptures instead of letting the scriptures define their doctrines. I struggled with it as well when I went thru it. It was this passage of scripture that made me reevaluate my theology. I had originally set out to prove that John 15:1-10 did not contradict eternal security and I couldn’t in good conscience honestly come to the conclusion that it doesn’t refute eternal security without ignoring the evidence and implications in these verses. I prayed, studied the Greek definitions, searched commentaries and nothing changed the message in such a way to coincide with eternal security. In fact the Greek definitions only strengthened the message in opposition to eternal security. I had been arguing and debating against Catholic theology fiercely supporting reformed theology up until this point where I hit a brick wall that simply would not budge. I studied these 10 verses for 3 days and finally came to the conclusion that if I can’t reconcile these verses to coincide with reformed theology then I have to go back and reevaluate every verse in the Bible that I thought supported reformed theology to see if it can be translated to not support reformed theology and much to my surprise they actually can. I found that some verses like John 6:37 for example actually translate against eternal security. I spent 3 weeks reevaluating my theology. I don’t mean 3 weeks in my spare time I mean 3 solid weeks of studying church history, early church writings, Greek definitions, and just trying to put this all together. I had plenty of spare time because I had taken a leave of absence from my work to take care of my father in his last days before he went to be with the Lord. When it was finally completed and I had re-evaluated every verse I could think of that supported reformed theology I finally had to admit it to myself that I was wrong. Then I went to the people I had been debating against and admitted to them that I was wrong and recanted my posts. One thing I had to be sure of was that my pride was not more important than speaking the truth about God’s word. Now I’m not accusing anyone of this I’m just giving my testimony of what happened when I discovered the apostolic teachings. Afterwards I began looking for the apostolic Church of God and from my studies I believe it is the Eastern Orthodox Church. They are the only church I’ve found that hold to the teachings of the scriptures, early church writings, and their actions reflect Christ’s teachings.
Don't forget to thank the Catholics for the good work they did on the canon. Awesome job!Yeah, I recall reading those, would have given a totally different conclusion than the finalized canon.
I still wonder whether that reference to "other scriptures" is declaring the Apostle Paul's writings to be scripture as well.Well, since we're referring to Peter saying Paul's writings were scripture - it's debatable what was considered scripture. Even what old testament books and what versions of those books. Is it the long version of a psalm used in a particular liturgy or the 1758 version? and so on.
That's the funny thing about heresy. It boils down to a doctrinal disagreement. The majority opinion claims the other opinion as heresy. It seems even Jesus was a heretic to the Pharisees. As were all the Apostles.Nice work, I think I'll copy it. But Ephesus 431 condemned Pelagianism as heresy.
It seems to me that sin is more self-love than God-hate.Man loves sin and hates God.
Of course! (that is, as far as the point you mean to make, though I must say we arrive covered in Christ's righteousness). All the things we do right are God doing them; our regeneration, our changed heart, our source of living water, our everlasting faith by the work of the Holy Spirit, having become one with Christ, are the work of God, not of ourselves.I think we are ragamuffins.
We arrive at heaven's gate with nothing but dirty rags to cover our nakedness.
And the Father runs to embrace us.
Because you accepted him, or because he saved you? Tell me where in the bible it talks about "accepting" him as savior. Receive, yes, but accept?? Do you really think we have the integrity in and of ourselves that our decision merits such a thing?Once you accept Jesus as your saviour,You are truly saved.
Law demands free will. But the gospel is not law.
Imo, The Lord calls everyone, but not all of us are willing to go through the narrow gate.Without any explanation, this quote is pretty meaningless.
But, sinners hate God and choose only idols left to themselves. Only after God saves a sinner can they see the true Christ and desire him. We are saved by grace before we can believe.There is no Gospel without God or His Law. Submitting oneself to the God of the Bible is the only perfect righteous expression of free will.
Galatians 3:12There is no Gospel without God or His Law. Submitting oneself to the God of the Bible is the only perfect righteous expression of free will.
God does not offer salvation to anyone. He preaches (announces) the salvation of believers. Those who choose to believe don't believe or they would not need to choose. Salvation is a supernatural experience that causes the saved to believe.Well then, I suppose we're right back around to those who choose to reject the gift of grace that God extends to them, deciding that eternal separation from him would be preferable.
The person who hates God is angry toward Him.But, sinners hate God and choose only idols left to themselves. Only after God saves a sinner can they see the true Christ and desire him. We are saved by grace before we can believe.
Not just believers. Salvation is announced to everyone.God does not offer salvation to anyone. He preaches (announces) the salvation of believers. Those who choose to believe don't believe or they would not need to choose. Salvation is a supernatural experience that causes the saved to believe.
I've heard that one too.My pastor used to say that
Also, ‘first He catches the fish, then He guts them!’
There is no Gospel without God or His Law. Submitting oneself to the God of the Bible is the only perfect righteous expression of free will.
2 Thes.2:13-14 saysAre you saved when you're
Called
Called and Chosen
Called, Chosen and Faithful
Peace be with all those in the body of Christ
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