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what makes you think the universal body of believers would not be a clearly identifiable thing, apart from an institution?
What he said, in direct translation, is The Universal Called out Assembly.
That is a far cry from the Institutional Catholic Church.
If you are looking for the word "church" as in institution/building, you should be looking for Kuriokos. not Ekklesia.
The point being that it means both the "called out assembly", the "institution" and the "building" in which the "called out assembly" goes to interact with the "institution". Its all part and parcel, the whole ball of wax.likely Ekklesia. the transliteration has been around for a loooong time.
never saw a corporate body in the entire gospels in relation to Jesus. Jesus had his diciples. They held to no denomination, no Church (such as the RCC) what they did hold to was Christ.
sure. Words change meaning over time.The point being that it means both the "called out assembly", the "institution" and the "building" in which the "called out assembly" goes to interact with the "institution". Its all part and parcel, the whole ball of wax.
It's not our job to shut up the kingdomThe question is therefore whether those who have formed new assemblies because they could not accept that single faith can truly claim to be in communion.
Matthew 23:13
... You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces.
You yourselves do not enter,
nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
Wouldn't this, what Jesus said, be the
criteria, rather than what you're insinuating?
John 3:3
3 In reply Jesus declared,
"I tell you the truth,
no one can see the kingdom of God
unless he is born again."
If one is born again, and can see the kingdom
of God, are they not "in communion" too?
John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that heareth my word,
and believeth on him that sent me,
hath everlasting life,
and shall not come into condemnation;
but is passed from death unto life.
The disciples were united in a single faith, that is and always has been the basis for the unity of the communion of believers that goes by the English name Church. The question is therefore whether those who have formed new assemblies because they could not accept that single faith can truly claim to be in communion.
and this is impossible apart from YOUR chuch, correct?Christ and in Christ, each other.
and this is impossible apart from YOUR chuch, correct?
nope.It's about unity of belief, not institutions, if we believe different things we are not united, to say otherwise is to engage in a deceit. I think I have deja vue here as we seem to have had this exchange before. It's odd therefore that you still labour unter the same tired old misapprehension that Orthodoxy excludes you somehow, plainly you exclude yourself from unity with us by rejecting what we hold as true. I am unaware that Christ proclaimed multiple gospels, are you under the impression that He did?
Oh, you mean paradigms and personal opinion. Ya, they do get in the way alot.nope.
Just that the things that divide us, are not IN the gospels.
Mary as personally blameless.
Communion of saints.
etc.
nope.
Just that the things that divide us, are not IN the gospels.
Mary as personally blameless.
Communion of saints.
etc.
no doubt. Holding the personal opinion that "my church has everything right, therefore everyone else is wrong" certainly puts a crimp in the matter.Oh, you mean paradigms and personal opinion. Ya, they do get in the way alot.
ah, by cheap grace, you mean, OSAS, correct?There are plenty of issues which are very much in the gospels that divide us also. Indeed in the case of much of modern protestantism which preaches what I would call ( with acknowledgement to Bonhoeffer ) 'cheap grace' we clearly do not preach one gospel.
As opposed to "The Holy Spirit tells me personally that you are wrong and I am right."no doubt. Holding the personal opinion that "my church has everything right, therefore everyone else is wrong" certainly puts a crimp in the matter.
now, have I once claimed so?As opposed to "The Holy Spirit tells me personally that you are wrong and I am right."
ah, by cheap grace, you mean, OSAS, correct?
Its implied.now, have I once claimed so?
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