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Aspergers and Lack of Morals?

B-randon

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I am the mother of a 16 year old girl who was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome two years ago. In many ways hyperlexia (a division of Aspergers', for those who are unaware) read like a description of her exactly.

However, in my research and experience there is one thing in particular that unnerves me.

Aspies seem to be often represented as sweet but socially clueless individuals who have strong morals, even if they are bit off-color. I have raised my daughter in a devoutly Catholic home, and aside from some divorce and brief instability in her childhood, she has been taught strong faith and morals. However, she seems to be missing something, a conscience? Something human. For one thing, she lies frequently and cheats and steals without remorse or limit. Her dishonesty is frightening and does not discriminate when it comes to even close friends and family. It seems she's doing this a little bit less as she gets older, but I suspect she's just getting better at not getting caught. She's seemingly incapable of leaving the house and actually going where she says she'll be. She shoplifts ridiculously and is never caught; over the past three years I'm certain she's stolen over a thousand dollars worth of cosmetics, books, food, clothing and other trinkets. She lies to such an extent that sometimes I've read her journal and found made-up stories in there -- it's as if she lies to herself.

A significant problem is with boys and men. My daughter has little to no social life because of her social awkwardness and also because of a lack of interest, but she is extremely pretty, tall and thin and a sharp dresser and goes through boyfriends, many much too old for her, with alarming frequency. She doesn't seem to care or have any interest in them aside from things that they can provide her with, such as money (she targets rich older men); and they always get over their initial infatuation and scram fast when they realize how "weird" she is.

Though she doesn't have much of an interest in the opposite sex, there is one serious problem. It occurred first when she was 13, and she developed what we thought was her first "crush", and we were honestly a bit relieved. However, she didn't go to school with the boy who lived in our neighborhood and didn't know how to approach him appropriately. Without my knowledge, she invented this insane story about being part of a secret government organization and took it so far with threats and craziness over the span of several months that the boy's parents ended up calling the police on her. At 16, the awful "crush" struck again, and she developed an obsession with this gorgeous Puerto Rican kid from her new high school. Through manipulation and sneakiness she was able to secure him as her boyfriend, but I was disconcerted by the way she referred to him in her journal as "the Object" and "it" and not a human being. This kid was a happy, healthy, normal popular kid and dumped her after about a month, as usual. My daughter could not accept this and started calling/texting him dozens of times a day. She spread vicious rumors about him and slapped him in the face in public. She went to his employer and claimed he had sexually harassed her, getting him fired; discreetly ruined his car; planted hallucinogens in his car before anonymously tipping off his college (we're not sure yet whether he'll be expelled and facing charges); poisoned and killed his new litter of shih tzu puppies; stole and destroyed his iPod and phone (that's a lot of damages on top of ruining his car!!); and finally broke into his house one night after purchasing a tarantula and giant scorpion for $15 each from the local pet store and released them on his pillow with a note reading "Hell Hath No Fury Like the Woman Scorned." In an e-mail to a very unhealthy friend, she made it clear that she had planned in detail many ways in which she could murder him and was confident she could get away with it, but wouldn't do so so as not to jeopardize her future.

Last year we sent her to boarding school with excellent security and she managed to run away. True to form, she was found two days later at the public library immersed in stacks of books. We think her time there was beneficial but I'm still worried since she's still doing these crazy things.

My daughter is extremely intelligent. She taught herself to read at three without my knowledge; I bought her a learn-to-read book to get a headstart on kindergarten, and when I went to teach her the alphabet she astounded us by clearly reading aloud all the words in the book. I send her to retreats and religious events, and I've had deeply intelligent adults tell me they've never met someone who could dig so theologically deep and profound, especially not at her age. She devours books of all types.

Extreme beauty and extreme brains, but there are so many dark sides. Despite her power to be intensely collected and calculating, there are times when I can't even speak to her because she explodes in temper tantrums and literally sounds like a 2-year-old, and you literally have to talk to her like she is one. She cries hysterically and pounds her head against the wall over the smallest things; completely irrational. She's obsessed with looking perfect and has that distinctly Aspergian(?) fixation with lists and schedules and rules; she can spend entire days studying complicated recipes for what type of clothing looks best with her body type and colors with skin tone and subconscious messages and such, she follows extreme beauty regimens that are planned with detail down to the minute they must be performed and precisely how many squirts of what should be used, etc. She's obsessed with the "perfect" body measurements and is never without her measuring tape to ensure that her waist doesn't expand past the specifications and the hourglass is maintained. God help you if something goes out of balance -- it's the end of the world. She has so many rules about what she has to do at what times, every day is intensely structured to the point that if we leave 10 minutes later than expected she pouts like a baby and acts ridiculous.

She has caused me so much stress that it is nearly unbelievable, on top of two older siblings with their own slew of issues. I'm worried also because she'll be eighteen soon and has proved to have very poor judgement. I'm afraid to know what she'll do with the independence she wants so badly.

This is all very stressful for me. I was wondering if anyone else experiences these types of symptoms/behaviours with their children.
 

C-Man

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Her dishonesty and wild behavior are by no means a function of Asperger's. They're more a function of being a wild teenager. :)
It sounds like she needs some very tough love, a good knock in the head to get her out of it, or at least shake her loose a bit. It won't do much for her "Aspergian" (I love that word, thank you!) traits, but it might just make her open her eyes and realize what a butt she's being. Hope that helps. =3
 
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MoeSzyslak

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I somewhat understand what you are going through. As a child and into my teenage years, I was horrible. Lying, cheating, and stealing at all times.

My whole problem was that I could not put myself in the place of others. For instance, if I stole something my mom would ask "how would you feel if someone stole it from you?" My usual response was "well I would just steal another one for myself, so why don't they just go steal one, there are enough of them out there." I could not put myself in the shoes of others. Ever. Still can't.

This is one of the most crucial things that being a christian offers to me. A set of rules I can follow. Secular rules have never met anything to me becuase the results of not following them are only temporal and that's temporal if you are caught. Breaking them almost becomes a game to play with me.

So a christian set of rules offers me guidance with permanent consequences, whether or not one gets caught. They keep me out of trouble and functioning in the world.

Whether it's a asperger trait or not I don't know. O.D.D. is sometimes comorbid with AS. I have never been diagnosed with ODD, but it wasn't around when I was a child. If I had been born 20 years later, it would not surprise me if I did get a ODD diagnosis along with AS. I do appear much more agressive, spiteful, and defiant then most aspies I know. But, now that I am older, God keeps me in line.
 
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LovedSparrow

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B-Randon,
Let me start off by saying I'm sorry for the situation you're going through. I cannot imagine what this is like, but you are strong. I would even suffice to say do not blame yourself. I am not a mom yet but I think my parents struggled with accepting things weren't their fault bc of my issues in life. I've found a lot of these issues are biological, my parents were not 'bad parents' at all.

A thought popped in my head, I have read about borderline personality disorder, in which it sounds similar to what I've read about your daughter. I would see if you could check this out- I am NOT a psychologist of any kind, please know, but I've read symptoms in BPD and wondered if it would fit with your daughter. This Christian forum has a section of BPD, just like they have one for Autism here. Maybe re-post your message here as a new thread there- you may get some insight from them too.

I'd suggest doing a google search on BPD, and check out that forum here.

Good luck to you my friend. :groupray: Keep us updated.
 
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cobweb

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The obsessiveness I can relate to with my 12 year old son, but he has never been able to lie convincingly. He is too honest (no tact and will just blurt out whatever he thinks). His classmates are all aspies and none of them seem to be able to lie (although they try) either.
 
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jason taylor

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Funny, from what I read lack of morals isn't the problem of aspergers. Aspies often have a childlike and rather ponderous sense of morality, the type that is utterly shocked by the seeming dishonesty of normal manners, speaks in a painfully literal manner and thinks of forgetfulness by a friend as betrayal.
 
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Autocannibal

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Your case shows that aspies can very quite a bit - most aspies aren't adept at lying, though many try.

I'm an aspie myself, but I was generally regarded as being a very compliant child - a big deviation from the norm - at least around trusted authority figures, including almost all my teachers.

My rebellious streak was aimed at my peers, as I hated their obnoxious and unfair ways; I didn't even acknowledge the existence of body language, tone, anything other than the literal spoken word until I was a sophomore in high school.

I have on occasion undermined systems (and games) where I feel the deck is stacked against me in various ways. I also found that I can lie to people who don't know me by just generally being weird - people are too weirded out to tell.

Maybe your daughter sees the world as her adversary, or sees the world in terms of everybody being everybody's adversary? I doubt it, but it's worth thinking about.

But that's just my two cents - not sure if we're coming from even remotely the same place.

However, you should speak up for the people that she's ruined - she needs to learn that there are consequences for framing people like that, and those people need your help.
 
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