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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Physical & Life Sciences
Creation & Evolution
Asking for interpretations of this cladogram
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<blockquote data-quote="Jimmy D" data-source="post: 72077902" data-attributes="member: 366806"><p>Idle speculation. Please post the cladogram you are referring to and show how it’s wrong.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Factually incorrect, see below.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Unsupported word salad.... See below.</p><p></p><p></p><p><a href="https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/53/10/965/254944" target="_blank">What Darwin's Finches Can Teach Us about the Evolutionary Origin and Regulation of Biodiversity | BioScience | Oxford Academic</a></p><p></p><p><em>Darwin's finches on the Galápagos Islands are particularly suitable for asking evolutionary questions about adaptation and the multiplication of species: how these processes happen and how to interpret them. All 14 species of Darwin's finches are closely related, having been derived from a common ancestor 2 million to 3 million years ago.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>...........</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Populations of the same species occur on different islands, and in some cases they have different ecologies. This allows us to investigate the reasons for their divergence. Closely related species occur together on the same island and differ. This allows us to investigate the nature of the reproductive barrier between them and the question of how and why species stay apart. Thus, considering populations across the entire archipelago, we can see all stages of the speciation process, from start to finish, at the same time.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>.............</em></p><p></p><p><em>Speciation: The end</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Speciation is completed when two populations that have diverged in allopatry can coexist with little or no interbreeding. Medium ground finches and cactus finches occupy different ecological niches, although their diets overlap. The ecological differences presumably permit coexistence in sympatry, in an environment (e.g., Daphne Major) whose food supply fluctuates in abundance and composition. To paraphrase David Lack (1947), the species are ecologically isolated through niche differences that evolved by natural selection in allopatry. The differences may have been enhanced by selection in sympatry, thereby reducing interspecific competition for food. But how do the species maintain coexistence without interbreeding? What are the differences that keep them reproductively isolated, and how did the differences evolve?</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>..............</em></p><p></p><p>Oh look, the Grants understand the taxonomic system...</p><p><em></em></p><p><em>The radiation began when the initial species split into two lineages of <em>Certhidea</em> warbler finches (figure 8) after the initial pathway had been taken. One group of populations (<em>Certhidea olivacea</em>) inhabits moist upland forest, and the other group (<em>Certhidea fusca</em>) occupies lower habitats on other, mainly low, islands. Remarkably, despite their long separation, the two groups have retained similar mate recognition systems, and for that reason we refer to them as lineages and not species .</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>.............</em></p><p></p><p>Look at this ... SPECIATION from one lineage!</p><p><em></em></p><p><em>One of the warbler finch lineages gave rise to all other finch species. Early products of the diversification were the vegetarian finch (<em>Platyspiza crassirostris</em>), the Cocos finch (<em>Pinaroloxias inornata</em>) on either Galápagos or Cocos Island (Grant and Grant 2002b), and the sharp-beaked ground finch (<em>G. difficilis</em>). The most recent products were a group of ground finch species (<em>Geospiza</em>) and a group of tree finch species (<em>Camarhynchus and Cactospiza</em>) (figure 8).</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>...............</em></p><p></p><p>Finally - Allopatric speciation</p><p><em></em></p><p><em>According to the standard allopatric model, speciation begins with the establishment of a new population, continues with the divergence of that population from its parent population, and is completed when members of two diverged populations can coexist in sympatry without interbreeding. We stand a virtually negligible chance of observing the whole process under natural circumstances. Nevertheless, it is possible to make relevant observations in nature of all steps in the process. We have described the strong role played by environmental change at each of the three steps in the speciation of Darwin's finches.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>..................</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jimmy D, post: 72077902, member: 366806"] Idle speculation. Please post the cladogram you are referring to and show how it’s wrong. Factually incorrect, see below. Unsupported word salad.... See below. [URL='https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/53/10/965/254944']What Darwin's Finches Can Teach Us about the Evolutionary Origin and Regulation of Biodiversity | BioScience | Oxford Academic[/URL] [I]Darwin's finches on the Galápagos Islands are particularly suitable for asking evolutionary questions about adaptation and the multiplication of species: how these processes happen and how to interpret them. All 14 species of Darwin's finches are closely related, having been derived from a common ancestor 2 million to 3 million years ago. ........... Populations of the same species occur on different islands, and in some cases they have different ecologies. This allows us to investigate the reasons for their divergence. Closely related species occur together on the same island and differ. This allows us to investigate the nature of the reproductive barrier between them and the question of how and why species stay apart. Thus, considering populations across the entire archipelago, we can see all stages of the speciation process, from start to finish, at the same time. .............[/I] [I]Speciation: The end Speciation is completed when two populations that have diverged in allopatry can coexist with little or no interbreeding. Medium ground finches and cactus finches occupy different ecological niches, although their diets overlap. The ecological differences presumably permit coexistence in sympatry, in an environment (e.g., Daphne Major) whose food supply fluctuates in abundance and composition. To paraphrase David Lack (1947), the species are ecologically isolated through niche differences that evolved by natural selection in allopatry. The differences may have been enhanced by selection in sympatry, thereby reducing interspecific competition for food. But how do the species maintain coexistence without interbreeding? What are the differences that keep them reproductively isolated, and how did the differences evolve? ..............[/I] Oh look, the Grants understand the taxonomic system... [I] The radiation began when the initial species split into two lineages of [I]Certhidea[/I] warbler finches (figure 8) after the initial pathway had been taken. One group of populations ([I]Certhidea olivacea[/I]) inhabits moist upland forest, and the other group ([I]Certhidea fusca[/I]) occupies lower habitats on other, mainly low, islands. Remarkably, despite their long separation, the two groups have retained similar mate recognition systems, and for that reason we refer to them as lineages and not species . .............[/I] Look at this ... SPECIATION from one lineage! [I] One of the warbler finch lineages gave rise to all other finch species. Early products of the diversification were the vegetarian finch ([I]Platyspiza crassirostris[/I]), the Cocos finch ([I]Pinaroloxias inornata[/I]) on either Galápagos or Cocos Island (Grant and Grant 2002b), and the sharp-beaked ground finch ([I]G. difficilis[/I]). The most recent products were a group of ground finch species ([I]Geospiza[/I]) and a group of tree finch species ([I]Camarhynchus and Cactospiza[/I]) (figure 8). ...............[/I] Finally - Allopatric speciation [I] According to the standard allopatric model, speciation begins with the establishment of a new population, continues with the divergence of that population from its parent population, and is completed when members of two diverged populations can coexist in sympatry without interbreeding. We stand a virtually negligible chance of observing the whole process under natural circumstances. Nevertheless, it is possible to make relevant observations in nature of all steps in the process. We have described the strong role played by environmental change at each of the three steps in the speciation of Darwin's finches. ..................[/I] [/QUOTE]
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