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Nov 2, 2009
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while trolling these forums i see alot of questions about Christianity (i have even posted a couple myself) what i dont see is the opposite where christians ask different religions. perhaps this isnt the best place to put this thread as its called "exploring Christianity" so ill do my best to justify it.

I (an atheist) joined this site in order to learn more about the Christian faith and have intelligent discussions about faith. do Christians do the same for other differing beliefs?

keep in mind if you ask questions that atheists are not like christians, we are not organized, we do not have any dogma, the only belief (well lack of belief) that we share is reguarding god or gods. thanks and i look forward hearing what you have to say.
 

aiki

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I (an atheist) joined this site in order to learn more about the Christian faith and have intelligent discussions about faith. do Christians do the same for other differing beliefs?

Every time I encounter a person of a different faith asking questions here, I discover new things about what they believe - or don't believe. I took a course in World Religions in university and have friends who are Hindu, Buddhist and athiestic. I think I can say I have a fairly broad, general understanding of other religions. Really, though, having come to the conviction that the Bible contains The Truth, that it reveals God to me as He truly is, I find myself distinctly uninterested in other religions. When you have a juicy, T-bone steak cooked to perfection right in front of you, a Big Mac isn't very enticing...


I've talked to a great many atheists over the years and have a pretty thorough understanding of their position. I doubt you could add anything new. Thanks for the offer, though.

Peace.
 
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ephraimanesti

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I (an atheist) joined this site in order to learn more about the Christian faith and have intelligent discussions about faith. do Christians do the same for other differing beliefs?
MY DEAR BROTHER,

i, of course, cannot speak for all Christians and their experiences, but for myself, yes, i have spent many years--most of my life, actually--studying the majority of the world's religions and belief systems before, by the Grace of God, finding what i was seeking in Christianity.

To be absolutely honest with you and not meaning to be demeaning, but i never could take atheism seriously even in the deepest depths of my unbelief. The idea that there is no God behind all that is was always, to me, too ludicrous an idea to take seriously.

But, yes, i did question and study quite rigorously before finally allowing Abba to lead me Home.

Again, hoping to not sound abusive or demeaning, but why in the world would i question an atheist about life--its meaning (or lack thereof), its purpose (or lack thereof)--or anything else of import and substance when the poor confused atheist cannot even take the rudamentary baby steps necessary to find his/her way out of the darkness of disbelief, when i can readily get all the correct information--or at least all of it that i am able to assimiliate with my puny little mind--from THE Source? or As someone alluded to above, why would i settle for a Big Mac when i have a perfectly cooked steak dinner sitting in front of me?

A BOND-SLAVE OF OUR LORD/GOD/SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST,
ephraim
 
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RealityPixie

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With all due respect brother...

Judging from your response, it may do you some good to ask the OP some questions about the atheistic philosophy and world view. Atheists are not confused, we as just as sure of our beliefs as you are, and we do actually find great meaning and purpose in life (the great lie perpetrated by religion being that without a god/deity, there is no meaning).

I'll keep this brief as I am aware it is againt the rules of this forum for a non-xtian to post in another thread, but mods I'll ask you politely to let you post in this one in order to clarify any misunderstandings about atheism.

If the mods allow it I will be more than happy to elaborate, but for now I will keep it at that If not, feel free to delete this post guys.

RP
 
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ephraimanesti

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MY SISTER,

You may enjoy--and be proud of--being a "Space Cadet." i, on the other hand, prefer my feet on the ground and real meaning in my life--"meaning" as concretely defined by my Creator, not by the wishful thinking or misguided dreams of an evolving animal (as atheists tragically view themselves).

Just as everything could not have derived from nothing, so true Love, Peace, and Joy cannot somehow darwiningly evolve accidentially. These things can only come through and with the purposeful actions of God's Holy Spirit, and i want them! Atheism, in its darkness and futility, will not get me where i want to go. What possible answers can it have for me?

A BOND-SLAVE OF MY LORD/GOD/SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST,
ephraim
 
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Nov 2, 2009
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bah five posts and no questions... oh well this is the closest i can get

As someone alluded to above, why would i settle for a Big Mac when i have a perfectly cooked steak dinner sitting in front of me?

Answer: because the big mac is real, and the steak dinner is not

its actually funny that you mention steak dinner because my mind immediately shot to the scene in the matrix where the bad guy (what was his name again?) and agent smith are eating a delicious steak dinner. "ignorance is bliss" i believe is the quote.
also big macs are delicious
 
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Nov 2, 2009
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There are 'Ask the ______' threads for different religions and none.
They're found in the Non-Christian religion section.

oh, if that is the case i would humbly ask that the thread be moved to the proper area without deletion, i apologize for doing wrong and i promise it was a mistake made from ignorance, not malace

also realitypixie, its important to note that we are (or i am anyway) open to the idea of there being a god (unlike our brother). all i need is evidence to believe that one exists and i will be the first one in line (perhaps not to worship as god has some explaining to do for his actions but to acknowledge)

i also didnt know that you couldnt post in other threads so im breaking all kinds of rules
 
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RealityPixie

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Firstly...The space cadet thing is an 'in' joke, has nothing to do with my atheism. Secondly, evolution is not accidental. Thirdly, atheism is anything but dark. Fourthly...I'm not trying to convert you to atheism, just have you understand a different viewpoint. Atheism may not have any answers for you, and I respect that, but perhaps you should consider broadening your understanding of atheism and philosophy, you may find it will strengthen your faith. Fifthly, atheism isn't wishful thinking, as it is backed by evidence. Faith by definition is believing without any logical evidence. Seriously, do some learning before making broad assumptions. As kidsagainstkows said, if evidence for god were to emerge, the majority of we non-believers would convert. That hasn't emerged yet so we choose to remain grounded in reality and not think wishfully
 
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heymikey80

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Secondly, evolution is not accidental.
Interesting. To what purpose is evolution directed?

Fifthly, atheism isn't wishful thinking, as it is backed by evidence. Faith by definition is believing without any logical evidence.
Hang on. Faith is not "by definition" believing without logical evidence.

What evidence against any god? God "by definition" is hard to define, isn't it? What was it Whitehead complained about supernatural or spiritual existence? Lack of evidence. Were that even true, lack of evidence ... logically ... isn't evidence of lack.

As for actual evidence, I guess my first question is -- Why would you think I exist, granted that there's no real evidence I exist? Words on a forum aren't evidence of my existence, are they?
As a software developer with backgrounds in engineering, cosmology, and philosophy, I would like to think I'm well-grounded in reality. Your connotation that Christians aren't grounded in reality is not born out by the facts. That non-believers would convert with "evidence" isn't really a well-founded conclusion, either. Convincing "evidence" hasn't been the source of any major popular sentiment changes in the world. It's just been politics (the philosophical kind), not evidence.
 
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RealityPixie

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Hang on. Faith is not "by definition" believing without logical evidence.

faith
(fāth)

n.
  1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
  2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief, trust.
  3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
  4. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
  5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
  6. A set of principles or beliefs.
^^Taken from dictionary.com. Please note definition 2.

Interesting. To what purpose is evolution directed?

Evolution is directed for the purpose of survival, in a nutshell. Although I understand the concepts, unfortunately I am not wordy enough to explain it properly (alas, for I am not a scientist). The best advice I could give if you wish to understand these things would to read the works of Richard Dawkins, his chapter on evolution in 'The God Delusion' is simple, straightforward, consise and easy to understand. In fact, for a pretty decent understanding of the atheistic postition I would recommend you read the whole book. It is pretty much my own personal beliefs on religion written up and published by someone much more articulate.

As for actual evidence, I guess my first question is -- Why would you think I exist, granted that there's no real evidence I exist? Words on a forum aren't evidence of my existence, are they?

Are you appealing to the 'you cannot disprove' argument? Well...you cannot disprove any number of things (fairies, goblins, greek gods, roman gods, celestial teapots, etc), that doesn't mean we should give them the benifit of the doubt. No your words are not evidence that you exist, you may be someone else for all I know. But for now the evidence in front of me suggests that you do exist. Or we could get all Cartesian and say well, you show evidence of intelligent thought and free will, therefore I can only assume you are a separate entity and not a figment of my imagination (I think therefore I am). For the record though, I never stated that you did exist.

It's just been politics (the philosophical kind), not evidence.

Speaking of philosophy...go to your library or book store and pick up any text on basic philosophy that adresses the question of the existance of god. I have yet to find one that says god can be proved by philosophical logic. For mor info please refer to these books. If you would like suggestions I can give you a list.
 
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aiki

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As someone alluded to above, why would i settle for a Big Mac when i have a perfectly cooked steak dinner sitting in front of me?

Answer: because the big mac is real, and the steak dinner is not

Well, from my perspective, the Big Mac isn't real - especially when I have eaten of the steak and find it thoroughly delicious and satisfying.


What's your point? Is the Matrix movie an important philosophical source for you? I hope not.

Peace.
 
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heymikey80

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Please note definition 1.

"faith" is an English word with common usage markings tied to it from the modern period of human culture. Just blanket identifying that with the ancient Greek term "pistis" is not a valid means of determining what this word meant.

That's not what the word meant. Referencing an English dictionary prior to the writing of Kierkegaard's "Either/Or", you find that's not what the English word meant even a few hundred years ago.
Evolution is directed for the purpose of survival, in a nutshell.
It's not. The result of evolution within seriously limited parameters, is simply the survival of what survives. When nothing survives, nothing survives. Were the purpose of evolution survival, something would survive.

Evolution is simply an explanation that what's survived, has survived due to variations. It's a statistical observation.
I'm sorry, the book is mostly rhetorical hubris. State what you would like to discuss. Quote excerpts if you'd like.
some theories are beyond sensible doubt, and we call them facts. The more energetically and thoroughly you try to disprove a theory, if it survives the assault, the more closely it approaches what common sense happily calls a fact.​
Anyone who bases truth on his view of how sensible a thought is, how logical, how consistent with what he knows or believes to be true -- such a person as Dawkins has self-expressed his view of truth to be, has to admit his attack is an engagement in some form of megalomania. Let's say I applied Dawkins' principle to, say, Dawkins' most unpleasant opposition. If fundamentalist Christians find their positions "survive the assault, the more closely it approaches what common sense happily calls a fact." So applying Dawkins' own rule, Christians more closely approach fact.
Are you appealing to the 'you cannot disprove' argument? Well...you cannot disprove any number of things (fairies, goblins, greek gods, roman gods, celestial teapots, etc), that doesn't mean we should give them the benifit of the doubt.
No. As Yancey's "Rumors of Another World" points out, there're plenty of things we can't prove, that nevertheless have evidence for their existence. MacIntyre's "After Virtue" makes the same point for the phenomenon of ethics -- in one of the better scholarly books on ethics produced in modern times.
No your words are not evidence that you exist, you may be someone else for all I know.
Underestimated scope. My existence -- no matter who or what I am -- my words are not evidence for that. If they were, well, you'd know the continuation of the reasoning.
But for now the evidence in front of me suggests that you do exist.
Why? With no proof, you're saying there's evidence, non-proof types of evidence, that would lead you to accept the fact of my existence.

What's the problem with non-proof types of evidence for other forms of existence?
Thinking isn't proof of existence. In point of fact, phenomenology has not revealed "thinking" exists. No one can tell if an AI program "thinks", for instance. There's no principle here. Again, "thinking" is an inference for existence, not a proof.

And if we're talking about inferences, that widens the field of discussion remarkably regarding spirituality, existence, God.
ROFL! Your deprecation doesn't reflect well on your position. Philosophy can't prove your existence by deductive reasoning. It has trouble even defining you.

I took philosophy. Patronizing is not a very good method of argumentation. It reflects Dawkins, though. He's patronizing on issues he really has no clue about. If that's your position, I can tell you right now -- the experts in these fields snicker at his shallow flailing. He's dancing on thin ice. The cold reality hits anyone who breaks through that thin outer crust.

Would I expect you to suddenly jump to my opinions? Nothing of the sort. I'm simply warning ya, Dawkins is not really well-considered. He's the New York Post of philosophy and religion. After 2000 years, Christianity has addressed much of the New York Times of philosophy and religion. But the New York Post is just a belligerent.

I'd suggest you grab a copy of Hayakawa's "Language in Thought & Action", and analyze Dawkins' book. Then you'll at least see the point. Dawkins has violated his own advocated rules of rational value, scientific principle, and observational phenomenology. To do so essentially condemns his view as inconsistent. If Dawkins requires marginalization, tarring & feathering, connotations of evildoing for his opponents -- then Dawkins has rejected science and rationalism on its own principles, and his position collapses under its own weight.

And that's why Dawkins is so often subjected to this consistency test. Because he fails, his position also fails.
 
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drich0150

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15But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

In your great quest for God, know that this verse only asks the believer to give you the Reason for the hope that resides in him. We are not commanded to give you an answer that satisfies your specific wants or needs for any given topic. In essences we are to simply share the Gospel. To which in the time you have spent here, that has been done.

Also know we are to shake the dust from our feet, and not to throw our pearls of wisdom before swine. So at a time of our choosing, any one of us can simply stop speaking to you about any topic, and remain with in the guidelines that govern our efforts here.

That said I have a question, If you represent a religion that supposed to have no structure or support, then what kind of questions are we supposed to ask?

Anything you say will be a shallow representation of your take on your system of faith.. or lack there of. How will this help any of us to server anyone else but you?

If your presents here is about your quest into Christianity then why don't we stay on point? Why don't you ask and let us answer? That is unless in fact you are here for a reason other than the one you stated.
 
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RealityPixie

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Heymikey and others:

Just letting you know I havn't forgotten about your questions, but will be unable to answer for a while. I'm currently in the middle of exams, and the points you raise heymikey require much thought.

When I have had time to properly asses these questions and your points I will address them in the Ask an Atheist thread in the NC religion forum out of respect to mods here.

Until then, I may pop in every now and against to answer shorter questions that I know off the top of my head. My exams finish on the 16th so I may not have any well thought out answers for you until then. But don't worry, I havn't forgotten.

Cheers!

RP.
 
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you are correct, my sig does not say that you have to give a good answer, only an answer. i, however, thought it would be appropriate for this site.

reguarding what questions you should ask, how should i know? many questions that im asked by people face to face are stuff like whats your purpose, things about morality (i have an intresting morality to begin with), stuff like that. im sure that many christians dont have tons of atheist friends (i know i didnt when i was a christian) so i thought it could be a learning experience for the both of us. also, my take on the "religion" (its not) of atheism will be very shallow, one man in fact with probably no other believing exactly like me.

i have asked a number of questions on the site. i will link them below if you wish to answer them as well.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7415455/ "why doesnt god just tell us he exists"

http://www.christianforums.com/t7415043/ "why was there jesus"

i also do not get a ton of philosophy from the matrix, i just thought the irony was humerous.
 
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