ASK FATHER: Should I go to an SSPX chapel for the sake of my family or stick with a parish where...

I would go to an SSPX chapel if there was one closer to me rather than drive the 60 mi roundtrip to go to Latin mass. I'd really rather not do that and I wish that they would just have an FSSP parish down in the South End of the diocese. This has been bothering me lately, because I feel like attending Latin mass at a traditionalist parish would be good for me and give me what I need, thus allowing me to better order my life than the parish I currently attend (and have been attending off and on since 1996).

Of course, I think that if Pope Francis decides to start blessing so-called "same sex marriages" & doesn't lay off with the "diversity, equity, and inclusion" communist nonsense, that we're going to see an uptick in the amount of people who start attending SSPX chapels. It would probably cause a very serious schism in the church but if the only option is a church covered in rainbow flags and BLM banners, I'm fine with being a schismatic because at that point, the church has been destroyed and rendered itself illegitimate by it's own doing & thus, the SSPX would de facto be the "true" Catholic church regardless of what Rome has to say about it.

No you cannot go. SSPX is a schismatic group that are not at this point in communion with the one Church. Thus you cannot in good conscious receive communion there. If you do, you yourself is now a schismatic, and must then be reconciled to the Catholic faith for any hope of salvation.

The people who hold this stupid idiotic and dangerous belief that the Tridentine mass is superior, doesn’t understand history and definitely doesn’t understand the theology of Sacraments.

Is the Lord’s Sacred Body and Blood any less existent in the Eucharist at a Novus Ordo mass than it is in the Latin? NO! So anyone claiming that one rite is greater than another are living on a very sandy foundation, that if they aren’t careful will lead them down a very wide path of false piety.

The Sacredness of each Mass is dependent upon YOUR worship and what YOU bring to God. It has nothing to do with the language that is used, or how saintly the priest is, or who is pope. It has to do with you. So if you think that you aren’t getting enough out of the Novus Ordo mass…well you are looking at it backwards. It ain’t what you are getting out of the Mass that matters, it is what you are giving at Mass that matters more.

Erose said:

No you cannot go. SSPX is a schismatic group that are not at this point in communion with the one Church. Thus you cannot in good conscious receive communion there. If you do, you yourself is now a schismatic, and must then be reconciled to the Catholic faith for any hope of salvation.

The people who hold this stupid idiotic and dangerous belief that the Tridentine mass is superior, doesn’t understand history and definitely doesn’t understand the theology of Sacraments.

Is the Lord’s Sacred Body and Blood any less existent in the Eucharist at a Novus Ordo mass than it is in the Latin? NO! So anyone claiming that one rite is greater than another are living on a very sandy foundation, that if they aren’t careful will lead them down a very wide path of false piety.

The Sacredness of each Mass is dependent upon YOUR worship and what YOU bring to God. It has nothing to do with the language that is used, or how saintly the priest is, or who is pope. It has to do with you. So if you think that you aren’t getting enough out of the Novus Ordo mass…well you are looking at it backwards. It ain’t what you are getting out of the Mass that matters, it is what you are giving at Mass that matters more.

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Some people think cucumbers taste better pickled.

Some people like the Tridentine mass more than the novus ordo.

Why should we not be allowed to have the Tridentine mass if there is a community of worshipers that have a demand for it? It's awesome and I've only been to one, but I've always wanted to go again and it annoys me that I have to travel 60 miles roundtrip to do so.

Erose said:

No you cannot go. SSPX is a schismatic group that are not at this point in communion with the one Church.

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Actually they are not technically schismatic. And even the pope, this pope, has recognized their ability to offer valid sacraments.

If they were actually schismatic you are right that we should not, except in danger of death, receive any sacraments from them. The reality is way more complex, and although not at all neato keen, it ain't schism at the moment.

BrAndreyu said:

Some people think cucumbers taste better pickled.

Some people like the Tridentine mass more than the novus ordo.

Why should we not be allowed to have the Tridentine mass if there is a community of worshipers that have a demand for it? It's awesome and I've only been to one, but I've always wanted to go again and it annoys me that I have to travel 60 miles roundtrip to do so.

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It has nothing to do with the Tridentine mass. It has everything to do with sharing communion with a schismatic group. That you should not do, if you want to stay in good standing with the Catholic Church.

It is the same fact that we cannot receive communion at an Eastern Orthodox Church or a Lutheran Church or an Anglican Church. We are not in communion, thus we cannot in good conscience receive communion at one of their Liturgies or Eucharistic services.

Now the issue I do have with the Tridentine Mass, is how some Catholics apologists are spouting how superior the Tridentine Mass is over the Novus Ordo Mass. That I have a problem with. For the only way one mass can be superior over another is IF one has Christ’s Body and Blood and the other does not.

chevyontheriver said:

Actually they are not technically schismatic. And even the pope, this pope, has recognized their ability to offer valid sacraments.

If they were actually schismatic you are right that we should not, except in danger of death, receive any sacraments from them. The reality is way more complex, and although not at all neato keen, it ain't schism at the moment.

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Unless something has changed recently they are schismatics. Just because the Sacraments are valid doesn’t make them any less Schismatic. The Eastern Orthodox Church has valid Sacraments, yet they are currently in a schism with the Roman Church and thus we should not receive communion at one of their Divine Liturgies. Currently the SSPX is in the same relationship as the EO and OO churches.

Erose said:

It has nothing to do with the Tridentine mass. It has everything to do with sharing communion with a schismatic group. That you should not do, if you want to stay in good standing with the Catholic Church.

It is the same fact that we cannot receive communion at an Eastern Orthodox Church or a Lutheran Church or an Anglican Church. We are not in communion, thus we cannot in good conscience receive communion at one of their Liturgies or Eucharistic services.

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And yet the SSPX are something other than schismatic. They are like the teenage son who ran away but has come back home, not without trouble, but nonetheless is home.

The Orthodox have valid sacraments but are in schism. We should wait until the schism is over before partaking of any of their sacraments. Nonetheless we recognize their sacraments to be fully valid.

Not so with the Lutherans or the Anglicans. They broke apostolic succession deliberately and thus do not have a valid Eucharist. That in addition to mere schism.

Now the issue I do have with the Tridentine Mass, is how some Catholics apologists are spouting how superior the Tridentine Mass is over the Novus Ordo Mass. That I have a problem with. For the only way one mass can be superior over another is IF one has Christ’s Body and Blood and the other does not.

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Is a novus ordo mass in a church at all superior to that surf mass from a few weeks ago on an inflatable 'altar' in the waves at the seashore? I do think we can speak of some masses being superior to others.

chevyontheriver said:

And yet the SSPX are something other than schismatic. They are like the teenage son who ran away but has come back home, not without trouble, but nonetheless is home.

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I don’t think this is the case. I have found nothing online from official sources that says the SSPX are in communion with Rome. If they are not in communion with Rome then by definition they are either schismatics or heretics. Neither of which Catholics should in good conscience commune with.

If you know of some official document that says otherwise, can you please post it.

chevyontheriver said:

Not so with the Lutherans or the Anglicans. They broke apostolic succession deliberately and thus do not have a valid Eucharist. That in addition to mere schism.

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My point that I was making that we do not commune with any Church that is not in communion with Rome, whether schismatic or heresy; whether valid or invalid Sacraments.

chevyontheriver said:

Is a novus ordo mass in a church at all superior to that surf mass from a few weeks ago on an inflatable 'altar' in the waves at the seashore? I do think we can speak of some masses being superior to others.

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. You cannot compare illicit activities with the norm. If anyone thinks that if the Church went back to the Tridentine Mass there won’t be illicit crap going on, then you don’t know the progressive crowd the Church is dealing with. One would highly question whether such an illicit service was even valid to begin with.

This is the issue I have right now, as I stated in the thread I started on this subject, that there are some very influential apologists that are out there declaring that the Tridentine Mass is superior to the Novus Ordo Mass, which is ridiculous on so many fronts. Does the Tridentine consecrate a better quality Jesus than the Novus Ordo Mass? This is what they are in a sense claiming. This issue has grown quite a bit out of hand it seems.

Anyway, unless the SSPX is in full communion with Rome, which I do not believe from what I have read they are. Receiving communion at one of their services, would be illicit, if I’m correct. If I’m wrong then I’m wrong, but I would like to see proof I’m wrong and not from some apologist. I need something official.

And concerning the mass in the water at the beach here is a couple of things: First his diocese once hearing of the act disavowed the priest. Second, he is actually being brought up on charges in Italy for the act. And third, he is asking for forgiveness for his poor decision.

So it is not like this was smiled upon by Pope Francis and his bishop. This priest is in hot water over this.

You can read more about it here: Should beating the heat by saying Mass at the beach (in the water) be a crime?

Erose said:

I don’t think this is the case. I have found nothing online from official sources that says the SSPX are in communion with Rome. If they are not in communion with Rome then by definition they are either schismatics or heretics. Neither of which Catholics should in good conscience commune with.

If you know of some official document that says otherwise, can you please post it.



My point that I was making that we do not commune with any Church that is not in communion with Rome, whether schismatic or heresy; whether valid or invalid Sacraments.

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I refer you to pope Francis, who in the Year of Mercy granted SSPX priests the faculties to hear confessions. And continued those faculties after the Year of Mercy concluded. One does NOT do that for schismatics. Which they are not. They also have Vatican approval to officiate marriages. Point being if they were officially schismatic they would have zero such faculties granted.

Further, the excommunications applied to the four bishops Lefebvre illicitly but validly ordained have been lifted by the Vatican years ago. There is no standing excommunication of any SSPX priest at this time. That is in the past and I think you could say that Lefebvre put them into schism but that schism is currently no more. It’s a tenuous situation but not actually an official schism. Some members may harbor schismatic attitudes, or unhealthy attitudes, but that is not the situation of the SSPX as a whole.

There has been a recent expose about sexual abuse within the SSPX. Nasty stuff, and illustrative of how one can be a wicked person and a traditionalist at the same time. It’s not only liberals who are prone to immorality.

This is all public record. And even old public record. And for the record I have never knowingly associated with anyone from the SSPX or attended even one of their events. Even though they are not officially schismatic. I only mentioned that they are currently not schismatic because they currently are not out of the Church. That’s a fact. And exceptionally easy to verify yourself with Duck Duck Go.

chevyontheriver said:

I refer you to pope Francis, who in the Year of Mercy granted SSPX priests the faculties to hear confessions. And continued those faculties after the Year of Mercy concluded. One does NOT do that for schismatics. Which they are not. They also have Vatican approval to officiate marriages. Point being if they were officially schismatic they would have zero such faculties granted.

Further, the excommunications applied to the four bishops Lefebvre illicitly but validly ordained have been lifted by the Vatican years ago. There is no standing excommunication of any SSPX priest at this time. That is in the past and I think you could say that Lefebvre put them into schism but that schism is currently no more.

There has been a recent expose about sexual abuse within the SSPX. Nasty stuff, and illustrative of how one can be a wicked person and a traditionalist at the same time. It’s not only liberals who are prone to immorality.

This is all public record. And even old public record. And for the record I have never knowingly associated with anyone from the SSPX or attended even one of their events. Even though they are not officially schismatic. I only mentioned that they are currently not schismatic because they currently are not out of the Church. That’s a fact. And exceptionally easy to verify yourself with Duck Duck Go.

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I made a mistake in saying that no SSPX members were currently under excommunication. Apparently bishop Williamson got re-excommunicated in 2015 and some associates of his were excommunicated as well. But then Williamson seems to be on the outs with the SSPX as well, being a loose cannon, a holocaust denier, and an out and out heretic too.

RileyG said:

This post is 100% correct and can be verified.

God bless

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Well, 95% correct. Bishop Williamson and his friends as the exception now.

Erose said:

Does the Tridentine consecrate a better quality Jesus than the Novus Ordo Mass? This is what they are in a sense claiming.

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Quite a few years ago now, I talked to a number of priests about the horrible, awful Novus Ordo masses we had to endure at various parishes in my area. And some of them were truly wretched; masses where the music---I kid you not---consisted of kazoos and tin whistles. Masses with female homilists. Masses with goofy actions like facing the back of the Church until the entrance procession passed by, when each pew was supposed to do an about face. Semi-rock concert guitar masses. "Polka" Masses.

In each and every case, what the priests told me all more or less boiled down to the same thing: "You're here for the Eucharist; everything else is irrelevant." And, "If you don't like the form or style of the mass, tough. You're just going to have to learn to like it, because all you're really here for is the Eucharist; everything else is irrelevant." Lather, rinse, repeat.

Over the years, most of the abuses gradually got done away with, but the depressing, insipid music remained. I finally reached he point where I would check the hymns listed on the board when I came in, mark the ones in the hymnal that were holy and uplifting, and ignore the other ones---the early 1970s dreck written by Haugen, Haas, Schutte, Toolin, et al. I refuse to sing them; I just stand there and wait for them to be over.

In a way, it's a lot like the cynical demotivational poster that says, "Ever since I gave up all hope, I feel a lot better." I don't walk into a mass expecting to be uplifted or exposed to anything transcendent or triumphal; if I am, that's a major plus, but most of the time it's pretty blasé, pedestrian stuff that I sit through in order to receive the Eucharist.

Which is to be expected, is it not? After all, the Eucharist is what you're there for.... and all the rest is irrelevant.

I told a priest once that it was like a starving man who's coming in for a superlative chicken dinner; hot, juicy fried chicken, luscious mashed potatoes, delicious biscuits and salad, a cold, iced drink. The only difference is, in the one case, you can walk through a beautiful, well-furnished dining room filled with beautiful art and white tablecloths and awesome service, be sat down and get your chicken dinner. In the other case, you have to crawl through cold, sticky mud mixed with rotten, stinking vegetation into a dark, drafty shed, and sit on a hard, cracked concrete floor to get your chicken dinner.

In both cases, is the chicken dinner the same? Yes, it is, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's what you have to pass through before you get the chicken dinner that's different. Now, would you rather walk through the beautiful restaurant to get your chicken dinner, or crawl through the slimy sludge? Because according to what they were telling me, it doesn't make any difference, either way. You're there for the chicken dinner---and all the rest is irrelevant.

He didn't like my analogy one bit, and I was sorry about that; but in too many cases, going to mass is a lot like the muddy ditch; I go, I endure, I receive the Eucharist, and if I want my soul fed, I have to go home and play my CDs of classic sacred hymns. Because I gotta tell ya: listening to O God Almighty Father being sung in six-part harmony accmpanied by a pipe organ does a lot more for me than hearing three middle-aged housewives with guitars strumming their way through We Are All One Body.

I have been to one Latin mass once in my life. After seeing it and not understanding what's happening, I still prefer it to the Novus Ordo masses I usually go to & I feel slighted that I did not get to come up in the tridentine scene. Problem is, in order to attend the FSSP parish, I'd have to do a 60 mile roundtrip every time I wanted to go to mass & I simply cannot do that.