Ask a former creationist

[shinbits]

Ask anything you've always wanted to know about someone who used to believe creationism was a legitimate science.

 

[TheReasoner]

Are there any creationists with actual degrees in science related fields, and if so, how do they relate to the classical argument "It's just a theory, stop pretending it's a fact"?

Another question while I'm at it... The idea that the earth was at one point encased in a shell of ice to account for the increased age of Methusalah and the like is one example of where creationist hypothesis don't make sense if analyzed with simple physics. Are there any of their hypothesi that actually do stand up to scrutiny?

 

[Wedjat]

When would you like your high five?

It seriously gladdens me when someone gives up that awful position and comes to join the ranks of a scientifically enlightened culture. Good job.

 

[Loudmouth]

Ask anything you've always wanted to know about someone who used to believe creationism was a legitimate science.

Do you find many corrolaries between your life as a creationist and Glenn Morton's essay called "Morton's Demon"?

Morton's Demon

 

[shinbits]

Are there any creationists with actual degrees in science related fields, and if so, how do they relate to the classical argument "It's just a theory, stop pretending it's a fact"?

I don't know for sure if there are any creationists with scientific degrees.

Another question while I'm at it... The idea that the earth was at one point encased in a shell of ice to account for the increased age of Methusalah and the like is one example of where creationist hypothesis don't make sense if analyzed with simple physics. Are there any of their hypothesi that actually do stand up to scrutiny?

I doubt it.

 

[shinbits]

When would you like your high five?

It seriously gladdens me when someone gives up that awful position and comes to join the ranks of a scientifically enlightened culture. Good job.

 

[Split Rock]

Ask anything you've always wanted to know about someone who used to believe creationism was a legitimate science.

How did you start out as a creationist?

What convinced you to finally reject creationism?

 

[Nathan Poe]

How will you answer when the six-day creator of the Earth (who apparently cobbled together the rest of the universe with less effort than a sneeze) demands to know why you didn't take every word in the book written by the people who claimed to speak for Him literally?

 

[Tenka]

Shinbits, In my time here I've noticed something shared by many creationists is a total worldview based on a mix of paranoia, conspiracy theory and persecution complex.
Rather than being a simple 'alternative explanation of the facts' creationist belief often indicates a person is trapped within a cult like control system.
We see it here often, a new creationist arrives and sets about trying to fulfill certain predictions such as "evolutionists will call me names" then they will flame bait until it happens, declare victory and run off. These types of creationist are only entering discussions in order to have their worldview justified.


I can't really remember what kind of creationist you were so I guess my question is does any of that sound familiar to you?

 

[Sanguis]

When would you like your high five?

It seriously gladdens me when someone gives up that awful position and comes to join the ranks of a scientifically enlightened culture. Good job.

Same. Reminds me that there's hope yet for some of them. Not all of them, mind.

Anyway, shin, what prompted you to abandon the absurdities in Genesis?

Well, aside from the obvious - it's absurd.

Also; do you liek mudkipz?

 

[shinbits]

How did you start out as a creationist?

What convinced you to finally reject creationism?

Raised in the church since I was a kid. So naturally, it was to accept something that countered what I was raised to believe in.

What convinced me? It wasn't really one thing.

Certain people on this board who honestly tried to discuss crevo with me one influence (Baggins, Danager, a few others).

But what I think really did it for me, was that anytime there was a topic being debated, whether geological ages or biology, links and arguments posted in favor of evolution were always incredibly detailed. Basically, the work that goes behind not just evolution, but science in general, is painstaking and impressive. I started to see the the significance of evolution as a science, as well as the facts supporting it.

 

[shinbits]

How will you answer when the six-day creator of the Earth (who apparently cobbled together the rest of the universe with less effort than a sneeze) demands to know why you didn't take every word in the book written by the people who claimed to speak for Him literally?

I'd just remind them of that "walk by faith, not by sight" verse of the Bible, and not to feel threatened by scientists doing honest work.

 

[shinbits]

Shinbits, In my time here I've noticed something shared by many creationists is a total worldview based on a mix of paranoia, conspiracy theory and persecution complex.
Rather than being a simple 'alternative explanation of the facts' creationist belief often indicates a person is trapped within a cult like control system.
We see it here often, a new creationist arrives and sets about trying to fulfill certain predictions such as "evolutionists will call me names" then they will flame bait until it happens, declare victory and run off. These types of creationist are only entering discussions in order to have their worldview justified.


I can't really remember what kind of creationist you were so I guess my question is does any of that sound familiar to you?

Well, there are a lot of evolutionists/athiests who do come here for the purpose of mocking Christians/creationists. Those guys ruin it for other evolutionists, putting in the minds of Christians that evolutionists are evil.

My guess is, that some creationists have had bad encounters with less than civil evolutionists, and carry this jihad mentality on evolutionists. Conversely, I think a lot of evolutionists get frustrated at Christains, who mock evolution for really no other reason than that their faith leads them to do so. Add to this, that many creationists get basic princaples of evolution wrong, I'm sure that this probably leads to a lot more "nasty" evolutionists than there would normally be.

 

[shinbits]

Same. Reminds me that there's hope yet for some of them. Not all of them, mind.

Anyway, shin, what prompted you to abandon the absurdities in Genesis?

Well, aside from the obvious - it's absurd.

Also; do you liek mudkipz?

I don't think Genesis is "absurd". But to answer your question, basic science and a little honesty.

 

[metherion]

While you were still a creationist, how did you feel about the immoralities such as lying and misrepresenting done by your fellow Christians Creationists such as AiG, Hovind, etc, when you found them to be immoralities?

Do you feel any different about them now?

Metherion

 

[Wedjat]

What's with the conspiracy theory stuff? Creationists always seem to assert that creation science is systematically censored due to a bias in the peer review system or something. I don't really get it, can you explain it?

 

[Bombila]

Shinbits, when did you stop being a creationist?

I try not to be one of the nastier evolutionists, but it does get frustrating.

 

[Tenka]

Well, there are a lot of evolutionists/athiests who do come here for the purpose of mocking Christians/creationists. Those guys ruin it for other evolutionists, putting in the minds of Christians that evolutionists are evil.

My guess is, that some creationists have had bad encounters with less than civil evolutionists, and carry this jihad mentality on evolutionists. Conversely, I think a lot of evolutionists get frustrated at Christains, who mock evolution for really no other reason than that their faith leads them to do so. Add to this, that many creationists get basic princaples of evolution wrong, I'm sure that this probably leads to a lot more "nasty" evolutionists than there would normally be.

I think you're right. On the whole I'd have to say that evolutionists, particularly young non Christians are 'biters', ready to jump on any provocation and creationists often feed off this attention in a kind of symbiotic relationship.

 

[laconicstudent]

I think you're right. On the whole I'd have to say that evolutionists, particularly young non Christians are 'biters', ready to jump on any provocation and creationists often feed off this attention in a kind of symbiotic relationship.

Hmmm, reminds me of a discussion I had once on another forum in which an atheist was debating a YEC. I jumped in and explained theistic evolution to the YEC and pointed out a mistake he was making... he never posted again...

but the Atheist, even though I was in agreement with him on the topic under discussion freaked out and came out with this huge diatribe on how intellectually dishonest and stupid I must be to be a Christian. It was weird. He demanded I immediately give a full defense of the entire religion to him. It was awkward, completely off topic.


For amusement value, here it is.

I had just refuted the YEC typical carbon-14 argument when suddenly he throws out:

There's seems to be a logical disconnect when two Christians argue over isotope dating when you realize what they have to accept to become a Christian!

Don't Christians still have to believe that Jesus was a god and was killed, cold dead for 2 days and then got up and talked to his people for weeks AND then flew off into the near absolute zero cold of space?

BUT even worse in my estimation, they have to fully accept that Jesus created all the 100 billion galaxies we detect today? And these two are quarreling over scientific dating methods?

Maybe I need to be set straight? Maybe it's not all this comical? I'm all ears, because I hope I'm wrong.. otherwise what a sad state humanity is in when so many profess to be Christian AND somewhat scientifically literate..

Me:

j.black, what is your point? I accept the gospels on faith, admitting the illogic of it. I don't believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis that is contradicted by mountains of physical evidence, or claim that my faith is scientific. And exactly how am I scientifically illiterate, when I'm not Creationist or making any of their idiotic claims?

Him:

There's 2 examples of magical beliefs that you must accept to be a Trinitarian Christian in my post. There are many others. Don't you think about what Christology has proclaimed?
How can you support and promote such tenets if you really care about the goals of science to shine a light on such superstitious claims?

Me:

I think you want to be talking to Harris. He's the one who holds to a Biblical interpretation contradicted by Science, not me.

Him:

He's a literalist and I'm not up on the verses.

I would honestly like to know how you can avoid being a Creationist when Jesus seriously referred to the Genesis writings as divine truth in his teachings. And when Christian theology claims that Jesus was co-creator of all creation. Maybe you have a way to avoid these topics?

Me:

Um, because I think Jesus was speaking allegorically.

This is mainstream theology, what most Christians today believe.

I think whenever a reference in Scripture is made to a "Creation" or God as a "Creator", it is allegorical. God "created" through the Big Bang and Evolution. I'm not much of a theologian, though.

The Catholic Church though, has openly and publicly endorsed Evolutionary Theory and the Big Bang for decades, the Orthodox are mixed opinion/don't think it matters, Protestants are mixed and the only place where you really see YEC actually endorsed.

Him:

So, in the creed you verbally affirm that Jesus created heaven and earth, but every time you do - you actually mean only that he was a good man, like it's merely hero worship, and there's no magic power or action at a distance involved.

Me: (this being the point where I became sure that he really didn't particularly wanted an explanation, just wanted to troll)

Nope.

 

[AV1611VET]

Ask anything you've always wanted to know about someone who used to believe creationism was a legitimate science.

Where specifically did you get the idea that creationism was a science?