• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Ryft

Nihil sine Deo.
Jan 6, 2004
418
95
Kelowna, BC
Visit site
✟23,578.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Qoheleth said:
Well, do all have this opportunity.
[align=justify]All have this opportunity insofar as the gospel is preached unto all men, elect and non-elect alike.

But a distinction begins to manifest itself the moment we take into account the nature of man. Namely, as a result of the Fall and subsequent corruption of spiritual death to Adam and his progeny into which all men are born (Gen 5:3; Acts 17:26; Psa 51:5; Job 14:4; 15:14), all mankind are totally depraved (in other words, no part of man is uneffected by the corruption of sin) and wholly unable to do any spiritual good (or put another way, "Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation" [WCF IX; III]). As Gordon Clark put it:
"From [Adam onwards] man could not chose to will 'any spiritual good accompanying salvation.' True, a man might will to be honest, to support his family, to discharge most of his obligations as a citizen. In colloquial language these things are called good. But they are not spiritual goods, and they have nothing to do with salvation. Furthermore, a man cannot will to be saved. He cannot convert himself, nor even make preparations for conversion. The simple reason is that he is dead in sin" (Clark, 109).​
As a result of the corruption of spiritual death into which all men are born, mankind in his nature is spiritually dead. He is not sick, he is not handicapped, he is not simply impaired—he is dead, he is a spiritual corpse (Gen 2:17; 6:5; Jer 17:9; Mat 15:19; Rom 2:15; 3:9-19; 7:18; Eph 2:1-5; Col 1:21; Titus 1:15; etc). "[T]he mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be: and they that are in the flesh cannot please God" (Rom 8:7-8). "In the whole passage we have the biblical basis for the doctrines of total depravity and total inability" (Murray, 1:287), for 'enmity against God' is none other than total depravity and 'cannot please God' is nothing less than total inability. "If a man is dead spiritually, therefore, it is surely equally as evident that he is unable to perform any spiritual actions, and thus the doctrine of man’s moral [or spiritual] inability rests upon strong Scriptural evidence" (Warburton, 48).

Total depravity and total inability have profound consequences. Unregenerate man cannot even repent, in and of himself (Jer 13:23; 2 Pet 2:13-14, 22; Acts 11:18), nor does he even seek God (Psa 14:2-3; Rom. 3:11; Rom. 1:21-28; Rom. 10:20, cf. Isa. 65:1), nor understand or receive spiritual truth (John 3:3; 1 Cor. 2:14; 3:20-21); they are under the power of Satan (2 Cor. 4:3-4; Acts 26:17-18; 2 Tim 2:26), dwell in darkness (John 1:4-5; 3:19-20; Rom. 1:21, 28), they are deaf and blind to spiritual truth (Isa 6:9-10; cf. Mk. 4:12, Lk. 8:10; John 8:43-44, 47; Pr. 20:12), and are helpless (Rom 5:6; Ezek. 16:6) and have uncircumcised hearts of stone (Acts 7:51; Ezek. 11:19; 36:26). A spiritual life that does not exist cannot bring itself about. A spiritual corpse is capable of nothing. "That which is of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit' (John 3:6). "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual" (1 Cor 15:46). "A new creature, therefore, cannot be the product of natural power" (Best, 14). To reject this teaching from God's Word, to believe that man—somewhere, somehow within himself—has the ability to discern and will to choose and do spiritual good, is to echo the very first lie every told on this planet. God told our first parents not to eat of that certain true, lest they die. "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil" (Gen 3:1-5).

Usually the offer of salvation, as told by Arminian/Wesleyan evangelicals, is allegorically illustrated by the idea that man is drowning in a sea of sin and corruption, and that salvation is a life preserver tossed to us by Jesus that we need only reach out and grab hold of. This allegory, however, perpetuates the Adversary's lie. We are not drowning and reaching out for rescue; according to scriptures, we are stone-cold dead, a corpse laying on the ocean floor. Pastor Brian Schwertley commented, "The common evangelical's view is that Christ, by His death, made salvation possible for all men; that forgiveness is there waiting for men to receive; that the Holy Spirit may gently urge men to change, but cannot interfere with man's free will. . . . Men don't need a gentle push; they need a spiritual resurrection." Salvation is entirely the grace and mercy of God who dives to the ocean floor to bring us back to life! Where is boasting? We can boast of nothing but the unsearchable riches of God's mercy and grace. All the praise and glory belongs to God, and it is little wonder we are so in love with him!

All do have this opportunity only insofar as the gospel is preached unto all men, elect and non-elect alike; but God must regenerate the heart of the listener, otherwise "while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand" (Mat 13:13). Consider Lydia (Acts 16:14).[/align]

Qoheleth said:
Again, how do you, others , or myself know that we are part of the elect. Your answer didnt seem to answer my question directly, thats why I asked again. I dont mean to be thick.
One way to know is by answering the following question: "Why do you want to know?"


-----
Gordon Clark, What Do Presbyterians Believe? (Philadelphia, PA: Presbyterian and Reformed, 1965)
Warburton, Calvinism (as quoted in Loraine Boettner, Reformed Doctrine of Predestination, pg. 66)
John Murray, The Epistle to the Romans (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1959)
W. E. Best, Regeneration and Conversion (Grand Rapids: Guardian)
 
Upvote 0

JM

Confessional Free Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,478
3,735
Canada
✟877,957.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others

This was asked in the Baptist forum...well?

Peace
 
Upvote 0

rnmomof7

Legend
Feb 9, 2002
14,503
735
Western NY
✟94,487.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
Street Preacher said:
This was asked in the Baptist forum...well?

Peace

Are you looking for answers of that post here?

i will take the 1st one.
The poster is misreading the intent of the Romans passage.


The SAVED are dead to sin in that we hate it . When we sin we have no joy of life in it.
We carry that body of death around until we come to the Lord and repent .

The unsaved are not dead to sin, they love their sin and it is the joy of their life.

They are spiritually dead to God the direct opposite to being dead to sin .


Rom 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?



Rom 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Sin no longer has dominion over us, we are no longer the slaves of sin, We no longer HAVE to sin .


Col 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
 
Upvote 0