AS and religion

Hi. HFA here, although it is very likely that I could be re-diagnosed with Aspergers these days, since I was diagnosed with HFA before AS existed. In my experience, I got to know Christ the same way as most other Christians claim to have gotten to know Him. One thing I've learned though, is that Jesus is completely unbiased. A normal Christian, even a very Holy and well taught preacher may misjudge a HFA or AS person as being a liar, or an evil person because they themselves are not learned in reading such strange people. However, God is perfectly impartial in His judgements of people, and knows how to read an autistic person, obviously. He doesn't seem to hold my HFA against me, but He doesn't want me to use that as an excuse to sin. But a dangerous assumption I must address is that HFA and AS people might be "good religious" people because they are good at remembering rules and take interest in the order of things. Being preoccupied with order and goodness are not bad things in themselves, but they are not a means to becoming saved. That kind of reasoning is dangerous, as it assumes that people can get to heaven by good works and by being overtly religious or obsessed with rules. It is through the power of the Holy Spirit that anyone is ever reconciled to Christ. The Holy Spirit is like an unported source code that can configure itself to any operating system, meaning the Holy Spirit can be compatible with anyone, whether mildly retarded or autistic. He reveals His love to whomever He will. God seeks out HFA and AS people just like He searches out neurotypical humans. I will say another thing though, the accuser of the brethren, satan, as some may call him, really does exist and takes pot shots at people like me all day trying to convince me why I'm not worthy to be a Christian. He takes advantage of my legalistic way of viewing things, and has actually introduced reasoning to me just like what he did with Jesus when he was tempting Him as He was fasting for several days. But the advantage of this, is that through the grace of God, I have learned neurotypical coping mechanisms to attack my legalistic black and white way of thinking so I'm less susceptible to the AOTB's attacks. The Word of God is compatible with anyone.

redmartian89 said:

OK, I have a quick question for you:
What is the basis for your faith, and how does your HFA figure into it?

Click to expand...

Jesus is my basis for my faith, because I know He is real and no one can duplicate Him. I believe that He gives eternal life to anyone who believes in Him, for free. Whatever Jesus said is true. I can't really put it all into words, but I know that He's always watching me and telling me to stop doing vain things, and leading me toward things I know I should do. Over the course of the last 2 years, I know He has helped me get a good job after getting fired many times, a small house, and right now has almost eliminated my debilitating panic that has crippled me for years. And that is without SSRI medications. I just know that God understands me more than anyone and that He has an intense fatherly love for me, almost a mushy feeling. Like the love of a father towards a 3 or 4 year old. He doesn't complicate things or taunt me with fears of things I don't understand, but continually shows me that He is just there.

I suppose I could link autism to my faith in the way that it is consoling to know that Jesus doesn't care whether I am capable of being acceptable socially, or laughing at people's jokes. Jesus, although not AS or HFA, was autistically obsessed with the kingdom of God, along with John the baptist, and later on the apostles. He did not care in the slightest about impressing others, being funny, or getting kicked out of the Jewish synagogue. He did many awkward things which hinted that he beated to quite a different drummer, and was brutally honest in a very autistic way, which eventually lead to him being crucified. The world claimed that there was something wrong with Jesus because he didn't follow their man-made standards. In a similar way, you will hear AS and HFA types claiming that the world of neurotypicals should not just assume they have a problem because they are different and don't go by usual social standards. There's probably more, but that's all I can think of at the moment.

God is.

Christianity provides the most rational and consistent explanation.

AS (tentative in my case) is consistent with the position that we live in a fallen world.

Regards........ Peter

redmartian89 said:

So what about someone who doesn't or cannot find any reason to believe?

Click to expand...

Well, if they don't believe, they don't believe. They can't be argued or persauded into believing intellectually. What it comes down to is this person's own decision to read a bible for themselves and make a decision. In order for Jesus Christ's sacrifice to mean anything, this person has to acknowledge the concept of sin explained in much detail in the old testament. If this person acknowledges the concept of sin, then they acknowledge that they cannot reach God without their sins being expunged. Jesus Christ is the one who came to forgive everyone's sins and make it possible for any man, regardless of Jewish heritage, to have a relationship with God and receive the salvation once entrusted to blood Jews.

redmartian89 said:

What about when the child grows up? Does the relationship change and we get more independence? Or do we remain eternal babies?

Click to expand...

When Christ referred to children, He didn't mean that people should remain eternally childish, but that children's hearts are not made as hardened and obstinate by sin as adults. Hence, children are more likely to be obedient and loving towards God. However, if an adult comes to Christ, not only is he really a spiritual child of His, but he is referred to as a child because he humbled himself towards Christ like a child.

redmartian89 said:

I would to hear anyone's story on how they could or did reconcile their AS or ASD with their faith.

Click to expand...

The best answer would be to read the biography of John Wesley, the father of the Methodist movement, who had numerous earmarks of Aspergers.

I have a specialty in Christian Healing and deliverance. I see 50% of the people I pray for healed by God of cancer. I see 80% of the people I pray for healed by God of arthritis. Numerous other ailments are healed by God, using me as His catalyst, based upon my appropriating His promises thru Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

As an Aspergers, I have found that I have zero gifting for evangelism. Heaven knows I've tried. However, one-on-one discipling people in the faith has worked well.

My son is AS, and what I have noticed is how much he studies the Bible, and how deep his understanding is.

Lisa

I dunno, it can be tough. Really, though, it comes down to something that cannot be logically accepted. Of course, logic is a strange thing and it is a tough world to live in for people like me as it comes down to the fact that His existence or nonexistence can't be proven by science. We really have no logical conclusion here.

Side with the words of men who claim God has spoken his Word through them and a collection of stories of miracles that have little backing in terms of existing science or side with the current conclusions of an ever changing, ever evolving collection of schematics and formulas that for all we know could change as our understanding of the universe expands and increases.

For me it came down to this: I hit the lowest point in my life where I became lost in despair, withering away like a spring flower at the onset of fall and in a moment of desperation, I returned to a God I had long since abandoned and cried out to him, quite literally. And it worked for me.

As much as it makes me anxious and drives me to detach from it there are no absolute answers. Was it chance that my return to prayer and acts of charity seemed to coinside with good things and my outlook on life turning around? I choose to think it wasn't.

Cajaquarius said:

I dunno, it can be tough. Really, though, it comes down to something that cannot be logically accepted. Of course, logic is a strange thing and it is a tough world to live in for people like me as it comes down to the fact that His existence or nonexistence can't be proven by science. We really have no logical conclusion here.

Side with the words of men who claim God has spoken his Word through them and a collection of stories of miracles that have little backing in terms of existing science or side with the current conclusions of an ever changing, ever evolving collection of schematics and formulas that for all we know could change as our understanding of the universe expands and increases.

For me it came down to this: I hit the lowest point in my life where I became lost in despair, withering away like a spring flower at the onset of fall and in a moment of desperation, I returned to a God I had long since abandoned and cried out to him, quite literally. And it worked for me.

As much as it makes me anxious and drives me to detach from it there are no absolute answers. Was it chance that my return to prayer and acts of charity seemed to coinside with good things and my outlook on life turning around? I choose to think it wasn't.

Click to expand...

Amazing how that works isn't it?

1 Corinthians 1:19-21
19For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."[a]
20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

I think you were witnessing Jesus' impeccable timing.

Hmm... I'm not really sure what was meant by reconciling my faith with AS, though maybe that's just because I never say a need to. I've been saved more than 10 years by now, and my faith was already pretty well-established by the time I even knew what AS was. After learning about it and getting a dx, I never really felt the need to question much of anything: to me, this was just the way it was, I guess. I had a lot of other things to get over, like why in the world I even had it, what I was supposed to do with it, and how would I ever be a nice person again, but I finally just had to realize that God has a purpose in everything he does. One of my new favorite passages is in 1 Cor 12; in that passage, Paul is talking about the body of Christ, and says that we're all an important part of it and that God made no mistakes in putting it together. Like he says, we can't all be eyes, because then the body wouldn't be able to hear anything. So, the eye can't sit there and say that the ear isn't a part of the body just because it's an ear, and the feet can't complain about not being a part of the body just because they're feet, since of course that would be ridiculous. I think that was how I finally accepted the whole AS thing, actually; there was just so much in that passage that applied to the whole situation. God didn't make a mistake with what bodypart he made me into, and knows exactly why I'm where I am. Other people can't honestly come up and say I'm not really a part of the 'body' just because they don't see me doing anything or because of who I am, because I'm as much a part of the body as they are and would thus be a bit ridiculous to say. And of course, I shouldn't feel like I'm not a part of the body because God's Word has already assured me that I'm very much a part of it.

On the other hand, if you're wondering about our supposed analytical thought processes (which I very much have, whether I like it or not...), and how we can still depend so much on faith... well, I'm not quite sure how that works, but apparently it does. To me, I guess Christianity just makes too much sense to believe otherwise. Sure, I admit I've randomly wondered on occasion what would happen if the Bible weren't entirely true, since I have noticed already how many basics of Christianity depend on the Bible's reliability. Still, in a way, I guess it comes down to the realization that I'm going to have to depend on faith to some extent or other no matter what I choose to believe, and when the Bible's interpreted correctly, it just matches real life far too much for me not to believe it. (That's more of a summarized answer, and doesn't really cover everything, but hopefully it at least answers the question...)

My mom did a wonderful thing for me, she gave me an education based on the things that fascinated me.. art, architecture, historical fiction, design, and the history of design and invention. I usually could only focus on one or two friendships outside the family, I loved animals. She let me be different and focused on my strengths.

I was very fearful as a child, but faith in the wisdom, power and goodness of God became very real to me at age 15- I came to the conclusion that God is good, wise, powerful and knows everything- I left fear behind when I grasped that truth, it was no longer necessary to fear anything – even change, people or the great unknown. Now, anything can happen in my life and I can have peace and calm because I believe it’s a fact that God’s in control – even when I’m not. If I didn’t believe with all my heart that God is in control and the Bible is true, I think I’d be a mess- living in a grey world full of uncertainty, hiding in some corner drawing pictures of things I would never invent and playing Tetris and SimCity.

[FONT='Corbel','sans-serif'] I feel like the way my mind works is very useful, I’m very thankful I’m made this way, I can do cool things- like design real towns (I;m a town planner). And I married the right person. When I was about 18 I started to see many of my weaknesses, as well as the unusual way my mind could see things, and decided that I was a package deal, and didn’t let it bother me- it came back to faith in God for me. A lot of the issues of feeling out of control and fearful were really fought with bible verses, when I would have that anxious feeling I would say (in my mind) Phillipians 4:5-8 to myself, or Proverbs 3:5-6 or Jeremiah 29:11-12- I would (with childlike faith) accept these words as true and valid and only then I could proceed with my day, my adventure, my life- knowing that I was in good hands. I also believe that verse that says “I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me” I overcame my fear of talking, singing and public speaking very quickly once I decided to believe this. Well, I’ve got to go now, but I thought that link was a worth while story, and wanted to tell you how I overcame some serious weaknesses. Maybe learning bible verses to help with knowing God is in control would help other people on the AS spectum. [/FONT]

swill8295 said:

Amazing how that works isn't it?

1 Corinthians 1:19-21
19For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."[a]
20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

I think you were witnessing Jesus' impeccable timing.

Click to expand...

I am of that foolishness Church of God.

My Asperger's made me a dedicated seeker of Truth. I sure couldn't get it from society. The churches I was drug to didn't know jack. But science resonated with me; they were also seeking truth. I read everything I could lay my hands on with regards physics, chemistry and mathematics. But then I was too busy just trying to survive. The Humanism I was taught in government school didn't cut it. I saw through it that it was based upon atheism and therefore nihilism. Man, was that a bummer!

I got into the occult through science fiction. I started a research group of misfits checking it out. Ended up with ghosts in my parent's house. When I got a recurring dream of doom, I quit it all.

When I got a maritime job out of college, I was bitter, suspicious, skeptical, sarcastic and selfish. Like Pontius Pilate, I had given up on "truth." One of my old occult buddies had turned Jesus freak and sent me tracts and booklets. I wrote rebuttals in them and mailed them back to him.

One day he mailed that his group was praying for me. I was amused, "let them stand on their heads in the corner for me, for all the good it'll do them." But the hound of heaven was on my trail after that.

One time when I was off the ship and traveling, I found a Seventh Day Adventist book in my motel room that showed there were supernatural things in the Bible. Hum. Another time I was off I was looking for a thick book to read. On caprice I thought about Bibles. Man, what a variety there was! I picked one that read easily and bought it.

I started reading it at Genesis 1:1, of course. I worked my way all the way through Ruth when I decided to go to the New Testament "to see how it ended." That fellow Jesus was really something. The more I read of him, they more I wanted to follow his example. But he wanted all or nothing. Hum. After thinking about it for a while, I finally raised my right hand in that empty room and said, "I'll do it."

I knew I was going to end up in the company of those "Christians." They all said they had the last word on God and they all disagreed with each other. Somebody was lying -- and it would take more than my lifetime to figure out who was being straight.

I started earnestly praying to God for wisdom. He came through. I ended up with Word of Knowledge. As we talked together, a lot of my old ways just sloughed off. He interpreted the liberal Bible I had to a more conservative understanding. My booze, cigarettes and porno went over the side of the ship. Then one day, he told me to get off the ship, head 'west' and follow. I did. It has been quite an adventure.

35 years later, I found out I had Aspergers. No wonder I had such trouble with bosses and pastors! No wonder everyone eventually thought me as strange. No wonder I had to try so much harder than everyone around me just to keep my head above water. But I had Jesus to comfort and guide me all that time.

I have read John Wesleys biography. He has the numerous ear marks of being a man of the enlightenment period with a hefty call to question answers and evangelise England. His commenteries read and compare to the contemporary writers of the same period. Its is a writing style from C18th England not ASD. As for Mr Newton....now that IS a differant story, his works positively scream ASD.

There are no absolutes of truth that can be definatively demonstarted only subjective reasonning.

Logical analytical reasonning is not anthema for God created our minds, and some are more unigue than others, if you think logical analytical reasonning causes trouble try visual spatial and an ability to create a synthesis from abstracts.

I was thinking of his hard time with women, his gullibility, his brilliant new ideas of putting small groups first, his making his movement comfortable for absolute zealots.. This is not from the Humanist "enlightenment" at all. In fact his movement kept the Humanist French revolution from coming into England and America.

This 100% focus has caused the Methodist movement to fragment several times. The Normals couldn't take that level of zeal!

He took small groups to a level that the church hasn't seen since. You had to be a member of a small group before you could join the large church service. That would certainly limit the occultists who would try to climb the heirarchy.

It really works for me, being Orthodox. The beauty and structure of the Liturgy keeps me captivated and involved while the numerous services and Scripture readings keep me occupied and learning about my faith. The complete lack of legalism in the spirituality helps me to grow more into the image of God and helps me to accept and love other people unconditionally. This also teaches me to empathize with people and place them before myself, all part of becoming like Christ.

I dont think that asbergers is as much a disorder as it is a blessing!