Article- The Edomites and the Khazars

[Te'omaAbadEl]

I'm posting this as I'm curious to see what everyone thinks about it.
It is taken from a Hebrew Israelite website called Israelite Heritage.
I would appreciate it if it was read objectively (if that is even possible), instead of right away jumping to 'thats offensive anti-semitism'. I honestly would like to know what you think about this.


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THE EDOMITES & THE KHAZARS

"The large majority of surviving Jews in the world are of Eastern European descent - and thus perhaps mainly of Khazar origin. If so, this would mean that their ancestors came not from the Jordan but from the volga, not from Canaan but from the Caucasus, once believed to be the cradle of the Aryan race; and that genetically they are more closely related to the Hun, uigur, and Magyar tribes than to the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob".

ARTHUR KOESTLER "THE THIRTEENTH TRIBE"
page 17

Who are the people in the land of Israel Known as Jews?

DESCENDANTS OF THE BIBLICAL ISRAELITES is the answer most people will give when confronted with this question. But is this true, if you have read all the pages on this site up until now, you know the answer is no. To prove this all we have to do is look to history for this answer. The Israeli Jews consists of two groups (Ashkenazi and Sephardim), ten to twenty percent are known as Sephardim or Eastern Jew, the remaining eighty to ninety percent are known as Ashkenazi or European Jew. The Ashkenazi Jew comes from Eastern European countries, the Sephardim comes from "Mideast countries". Let history show us who the KHAZARS and Sephardim were and are:

In the year 450 A.D. one of Europe's barbaric tribes was beginning to show signs of restlessness. This tribe was called the KHAZARS (Chazars). Within the next two hundred years, the KHAZARS would form Eastern Europe's largest and most powerful kingdom. They would rule supreme for about 200 years, ranking in power with the Muslim Caliphate and the Byzantine Empire. Their kingdom, of approximately one million square miles, bordered the Aral sea on the east; Kiev and the Ukrainian Steppes on the west: the Caucasus mountain and the Black Sea on the south: and the Ural mountain on the north.

Khazaria represented a very important period in European history, without their valor, Europe would have probably been one 100% Muslim today. Why don't we hear more about the KHAZARS and their mighty empire today?
Now lets look at the genealogy of the KHAZARS. Since this matter is so important, we shall allow the Kagan or King of the KHAZARS to inform us. A Khazar King named Joseph corresponded with a Spanish Israelite named Hasdai Ibn Sharprut sometime between 954 and 961 C.E. (Manuscripts of this correspondence may be seen in the Library of Christ Church at Oxford, England and in the Leningrad Public Library in Leningrad, Russia) Hasdai was the chief minister of the Caliph of Cordoba Abd - al - Rahman III.

At that time Cordoba was the splendor of Moorish Spain (a mixture of black skinned Muslims and Israelites ), and was the main center of European Culture. In his letter to Hasdai, King Joseph stated that he was from the line of JAPHETH, FROM THE SEED OF TOGARMAH, Japheth's grandson. He further stated that Togarmah, who was the brother of ASHKENAZ, had ten sons and the KHAZARS represented the seventh son. With his own lips, this King had given the root of his being and the lineage of his offspring which was from the sons of Japheth .

Let us now see what the scriptures have to say about Japheth and Togarmah. In the book of Genesis 10: 2 - 5. "The sons of Japheth: Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. and the sons of Gomer: ASHKENAZ, AND Riphath, and Togarmah. And the sons of Javan: Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. By these were THE ISLES OF THE GENTILE divided in their lands everyone after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

According to the King of the KHAZARS, his people descended from the family of Magog. Like all European nations at the time, the KHAZARS were pagans. However, ca. 740 C.E. King Bulan initiated the conversion of his kingdom to a new and different philosophy. Before the conversion, the Kagan invited representatives of Christianity, Islam and the Israelites to discuss the three doctrines. It was unanimously agreed, in response to the Kagan's question, that the doctrine of the Israelites was closest to the truth, he came to this conclusion because both the Christians (Byzantine) and Muslims both respected the Hebrew scriptures.

And also in order for the KHAZARS to remain independent they chose the faith that neither the Christian or Muslims was part of but both respected. After the conversion the Khazar King changed his name to become King Obadiah. They displayed much hope but very little understanding, especially of spiritual matters. Eventually, they had to invent their own brand of the law which later they named Judaism. The word "Judaism" cannot be found in the writings of the Prophets of old, neither is it found anywhere in the Holy Scriptures. Judaism, is a misunderstanding or perversion of the customs of the ancient Israelites, as practiced by the KHAZARS.

Arthur Koestler in his very noteworthy book "THE THIRTEENTH TRIBE gives further detailed information about the KHAZARS and their conversion to the faith of the Israelites and how the majority of today's European Jews are direct descendants of them. The information contained in his book is backed up by scripture that show's the Jews are Gentiles, not natural -born Israelites

According to Microsoft Encarta, "Today, about 85% of all Jews are Ashkenazim". The Ashkenazi are not descendants of Israel, Ashkenaz was the grandson of Japheth and brother of Togarmah. Arthur Koestler further explains why today's Jews call themselves Ashkenazi even though they are the Physical seed of Togarmah. He shows that the KHAZARS took on the name of Ashkenaz because it was prophesied in Jeremiah 51:27 that Ashkenaz and their allies would conquer Babylon.

After reading all the historical and biblical information about who are and who are not the true Israelites according to the flesh, should make us have an full understanding of Revelation 12:9. which states : And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent called the devil and Satan, which deceive the whole world.

The whole world is deceived not only about the right way to worship YHWH, but they are deceived about who are the true Israelites a people near and dear unto YHWH (psalms 148:14).


The second half of the Jewish populace in the land of Yisrael today are the Sephardim or Eastern Jew / Edomites. They have been in the land for over 1900 years , since the 1st century C.E. They are indigenous to the "Mideast". These are the real Edomites (descendants of Jacob twin Esau or Edom) they have lived side by side with the Arab population for many centuries. They are truly descendant from Shem, these Jews are different from the Ashkenazi in appearance they have darker skin and look more like the darker Arab population of the "Mid East", they also comprise less than 20% of the Israeli population. But it would appear that this small segment "Children of Shem" (NOT SEMITES) lineage is cleverly used, along with "Judaism" to imply the "Shemitic" origin of all Israelis Jews.

These Sephardim entered the land in the first century C.E., along with the Romans when Israel was being kicked out of the land, as it is written in the book of Obadyah.

Verse 2 "Behold, I have made you small among the heathen: you are GREATLY DESPISED."

While verses 10 - 16 tells us of Edom's injustice against the Israelites and the prophesy of their curse. "For your violence against your brother Jacob shame shall cover you, and you shall be cut off for ever.

verse 11 In the day that you stood on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even you was as one of them.

verse 12 But you should not have looked on the day of your brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither should you have spoken proudly in the day of distress,

verse 13 You SHOULD NOT HAVE ENTERED INTO THE GATE OF MY PEOPLE IN THE DAY OF THEIR CALAMITY: yeah, you should not have look on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands ON THEIR SUBSTANCE IN THE DAY OF THEIR CALAMITY:

verse 14 Neither should you have stood in the crossway, to cut off his that did escape; neither should you have you have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress.

verse 15 For the day of YHWH is near upon all the heathen: as you have done, IT SHALL BE DONE UNTO YOU: YOUR REWARD SHALL RETURN UPON YOUR OWN HEAD.

verse 16 For as you have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea they shall drink, and they shall shallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been".

The Sephardim / Edomite / Eastern Jews are being oppressed big time by the Ashkenazi and because they have joined with the Ashkenazi and call themselves Jews, the surrounding Arab population despise them just as much as they do the Ashkenazi. So they have it coming both ways, but this is their punishment for helping to mistreat the Israelites.

In a book by a Ashkenazi Jew Jack Bernstein entitled 'LIFE OF AN AMERICAN JEW IN RACIST, MARXIST ISRAEL', he tells of his experience in Israel which was not a pleasant one, but he tells of how he married a Sephardim woman and the hatred and discrimination he received from the Ashkenazi population even though he himself is a Ashkenazi. But because he was married to a Sephardim he caught all kinds of hell, the Sephardim are second class citizens in Israel, for this reason Jack Bernstein calls Israel racist, because anybody who is not Ashkenazi is treated as second class citizens.

The Sephardim / Edomites came into the land and laid their hands on Israel possessions and pretended to be the Hebrews, but as Yah said, he would return their reward on their own head. So now the Ashkenazi has come in and move them over and they are pretending to be the true Hebrews and laid their hands on Edom possessions, but this is just the fulfillment of prophecy. I find it interesting that the Sephardim are looked at and called [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]s by the Ashkenazi.

This fact Mr. Bernstein points out in his book on page 39
"One Day I entered a café in Tel Aviv, The place was crowded and I sat down on the only seat available. Also sitting at this table were five Sephardim Jews from Morocco. they learned that I was studying the Hebrew language so they were helping me with my studies when a blue eyed Nazi type Israeli Police officer walked into the café. He ordered me to "GET AWAY FROM THOSE KOOSHIM" . "KOOSHIM" in Hebrew means "[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]".
The Ashkenazi are treating the Sephardim in a similar manner as we are being treated in the United States.
One thing we have learnt is that history rewards all those that do the research. History has showed us that the Jews are not Israelites but Gentiles. We have learnt that this Gentile has descended from the families of Japheth (Togarmah, Gomer, Gig, Magog) and not from the House of Jacob. We have also learnt that Edom has joined with this Gentile to deliberately pervert the word of YHWH.

The Israelites descended from Jacob; while the KHAZARS descended from Japheth and the Edomites from Esau. The Israelites originated from northeastern Africa; while the KHAZARS originated from southeastern Europe and the Edomites from the southern Palestine/Jordan area.

The Majority of Israelites have black skin, according to the Holy Scripture, with woolly hair. The Israelis have white skin, mostly blue eyes, long straight hair.

The Israelites spoke Egyptian, Hebrew, Aramaic and later Greek, Roman, Spanish, various West African languages and today the various languages of the Americas. The Israelis (KHAZARS) spoke a language called Yiddish which many of them still speak.

The Israelites practiced the faith of their forefathers as commanded by their creator through Moshe and written in their history book, the holy scriptures.

The Israelis practice a pagan philosophy called Judaism (those few who have a religious belief). The Israelites traveled by way of the Red Sea and the Jordan; while the KHAZARS traveled by the way of the Caspian Sea and the Volga, and the Edomites by way of the Dead or salt Sea and the Arabah.

The Israelites came from Canaan through the lineage of Abraham, Isaac and Yaaqob; while the KHAZARS came from the Caucasus through Gomer, Togarmah and Khazar, and the Edomites from Mount Seir through Abraham, Isaac and Esau or Edom.

Finally, according to the Holy Scriptures, Yah himself selected the Israelites and hated the Edomites (Malachi 1: 1-5), while according to history, the KHAZARS were chosen by men.
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Shalom!

 

[BarryWestern]

Dude, that article is garbage, and it is used as a vehicle for hate. Be very careful, it looks like those Christian Identity types

 

[Te'omaAbadEl]

That is exactly the type of reply i said I did not want. If you do not agree with it then discuss why. You cant state a conclusion without any premises. What sort of argument is that? I never said I agree with it. I just want to know what everyone thinks.

And anything can be used a vehicle for hate. It doesn't mean it is hateful.

I don't know what you mean by Christian identity types, but I will say that there is nothing wrong with having a sense of identity. Identity is central to Jews.

Anyway I wanted it to be read objectively, so that a proper argument could be brought forth, either for or against, using premises for your conclusion.

 

[Shimshon]

oy...as an ashkenazi I just couldn't let this one go by without spitting on it. (spit spit spit....)

Just another form of racism. I've past these guys in person on the street preaching this trash at the top of their lungs. At a busy mall light rail station.

Lies........ pure fiction. Yet, deadly at it's anti-semetic heart.

I'll let wikipedia give my premise for me.

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Khazars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The theory gained further support when the novelist Arthur Koestler devoted his popular book The Thirteenth Tribe (1976) to the topic. Koestler's historiography has been attacked as highly questionable by many historians;[21][38][39] it has also been pointed out that his discussion of theories about Ashkenazi descent is entirely lacking scientific or historiographical support; to the extent that Koestler referred to place-names and documentary evidence his analysis has been described as a mixture of flawed etymologies and misinterpreted primary sources.[40] Commentors have also noted that Koestler mischaracterized the sources he cited, particularly D.M. Dunlop's History of the Jewish Khazars (1954).[39] Dunlop himself stated that the theory that Eastern European Jews were the descendants of the Khazars, "... can be dealt with very shortly, because there is little evidence which bears directly upon it, and it unavoidably retains the character of a mere assumption."[41] One other piece of evidence against the Khazar Theory is the near total lack of Turkic influence on the development of the Yiddish language spoken by Ashknenazic Jews.
Koestler himself was pro-Zionist based on secular considerations, and did not see alleged Khazar ancestry as diminishing the claim of Jews to Israel, which he felt was based on the United Nations mandate, and not on Biblical covenants or genetic inheritance. In his view, "The problem of the Khazar infusion a thousand years ago ... is irrelevant to modern Israel". In addition, he was apparently "either unaware of or oblivious to the use anti-Semites had made to the Khazar theory since its introduction at the turn of the century."[42]
Nevertheless, in the Arab world the Khazar theory still enjoys popularity among some anti-Zionists[21] and antisemites;[43] Such proponents argue that if Ashkenazi Jews are primarily Khazar and not Semitic in origin, they would have no historical claim to Israel, nor would they be the subject of God's Biblical promise of Canaan to the Israelites, thus undermining the theological basis of both Jewish religious Zionists and Christian Zionists. In the 1970s and 80s the Khazar theory was also advanced by some Russian chauvinist antisemites, particularly the historian Lev Gumilyov, who portrayed "Judeo-Khazars" as having repeatedly sabotaged Russia's development since the 7th century.[44]
Bernard Lewis stated in 1999:

This theory… is supported by no evidence whatsoever. It has long since been abandoned by all serious scholars in the field, including those in Arab countries, where the Khazar theory is little used except in occasional political polemics.[21]
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[Shimshon]

A 1999 study by Hammer et al., published in the Proceedings of the United States National Academy of Sciences compared the Y chromosomes of Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian Jews with 16 non-Jewish groups from similar geographic locations. It found that "Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level... The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora."[45] According to Nicholas Wade "The results accord with Jewish history and tradition and refute theories like those holding that Jewish communities consist mostly of converts from other faiths, or that they are descended from the Khazars, a medieval Turkish tribe that adopted Judaism."[46]
A 2001 study by Nebel et al. found Haplogroup R1a chromosomes (called Eu 19 in the paper), which are very frequent in Eastern European populations (54%-60%), at elevated frequency (12.7%) in Ashkenazi Jews. The authors hypothesized that these chromosomes could reflect low-level gene flow into Ashkenazi populations from surrounding Eastern European populations, or, alternatively, that both the Ashkenazi Jews in Haplogroup R1a, and to a greater extent all Eastern European populations in general, might have some partial Khazar ancestry.[47]
A 2003 study of the Y-chromosome by Behar et al. found that among Ashkenazi Levites, who comprise approximately 4% of Ashkenazi Jews, the prevalence of Haplogroup R1a1 was over 50%. This haplogroup is uncommon in other Jewish groups, but found in high frequencies in eastern European populations. They argued that "it is likely that the event leading to a high frequency of R1a1 NRYs within the Ashkenazi Levites involved very few, and possibly only one, founding father." They postulated that one likely source of the gene was a "a founder(s) of non-Jewish European ancestry, whose descendents were able to assume Levite status", and that an alternate "attractive source would be the Khazarian Kingdom, whose ruling class is thought to have converted to Judaism in the 8th or 9th century." The concluded that "[a]lthough neither the NRY haplogroup composition of the majority of Ashkenazi Jews nor the microsatellite haplotype composition of the R1a1 haplogroup within Ashkenazi Levites is consistent with a major Khazar or other European origin, as has been speculated by some authors (Baron 1957; Dunlop 1967; Ben-Sasson 1976; Keys 1999), one cannot rule out the important contribution of a single or a few founders among contemporary Ashkenazi Levites."[48]
A 2005 study by Nebel et al., based on Y chromosome polymorphic markers, showed that Ashkenazi Jews are more closely related to other Jewish and Middle Eastern groups than to their local neighbouring populations in Europe. However, 11.5% of male Ashkenazim were found to belong to Haplogroup R1a1 (R-M17), the dominant Y chromosome haplogroup in Eastern Europeans, suggesting possible gene flow between the two groups. The authors hypothesized that "R-M17 chromosomes in Ashkenazim may represent vestiges of the mysterious Khazars". They concluded "However, if the R-M17 chromosomes in Ashkenazi Jews do indeed represent the vestiges of the mysterious Khazars then, according to our data, this contribution was limited to either a single founder or a few closely related men, and does not exceed ~ 12% of the present-day Ashkenazim.[49]

 

[Te'omaAbadEl]

Toda rabba for the information provided shimshon. What is the source for the information posted on the DNA evidence?

And I have seen videos of some hebrew israelites on youtube yelling very hateful things on the streets to caucasians and africans, in a manner very contrary to way of HaShem. But there are also some who are not hateful, but rather are claiming what they believe to be their identity. Such Hebrew Israelites have nothing to do with the other hateful groups. As I said, information like this can be used hatefully, but not all do use it so. I have personally met some Hebrew Israelites who are some of the most peaceful and friendly people I have ever met, and I am caucasian.

Shinshon, do you have any information on the scattering of the Ashkenazi Jews and the movement from Israel into Europe?

 

[Shimshon]

Shinshon, do you have any information on the scattering of the Ashkenazi Jews and the movement from Israel into Europe?

Basically, they were persecuted within the Roman empire after the Jewish revolt (135-400CE) then as Christianty became the dominant religion of Rome fled over the Alps to the Rhineland. From 3ce to 8ce they florished there only to be persecuted again within the crusades at about 11ce. This pushed them eastward into Poland and Hugary and the like.

135 - 400 CE Roman persecution and ocupation in Israel
400 - 800 CE Germanic and Islamic rules in Europe and Persia
1100 - 1400CE Crusades drove us to eastern europe
1400 - 1800CE - Eastern Europe Ashkenazim
1800 - Present - American/Israeli Jewery

400CE - Driven from the Land by Rome over the Alps to the Rhineland
500CE - Germans invade the western Roman empire and help relieve Jewish persecution from Roman
800CE - King Charlemagne expands the Frankish (France) empire and again blesses the Jews
1100CE - Driven from the Rhineland by the crusades into eastern europe (poland hungry)


Here are some links:
Ashkenazi Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Origins
Although the historical record itself is very limited, there is a consensus of cultural, linguistic, and genetic evidence that the Ashkenazi Jewish population originated in the Middle East. Jews have lived in Germany, or "Ashkenaz", at least since the early 4th century[citation needed]. They brought with them both Rabbinic Judaism and the Babylonian Talmudic culture that underlies it. Yiddish, once spoken by the vast majority of Ashkenazi Jewry, is a Germanic language which developed from the Middle High German vernacular, heavily influenced by Hebrew and Aramaic.


[edit] Background in the Roman Empire

After the Roman empire had overpowered the Jewish resistance in the First Jewish–Roman War in Judea and destroyed of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem in 70 CE, the complete Roman takeover of Judea followed the Bar Kochba rebellion of 132-135 CE. Jews continued to be a majority of the population in Palestine for several hundred years. However, the Romans no longer recognized the authority of the Sanhedrin or any other Jewish body, and Jews were prohibited from living in Jerusalem. Outside the Roman Empire, a large Jewish community remained in Mesopotamia. Other Jewish populations could be found dispersed around the Mediterranean region, with the largest concentrations in the Levant, Egypt, Asia Minor, Greece, and Italy, including Rome itself. Smaller communities are recorded in southern Gaul (France), Spain, and North Africa.[14]
Jews were denied full Roman citizenship until 212 CE, when Emperor Caracalla granted all free peoples this privilege. However as a penalty for the first Jewish Revolt, Jews were still required to pay a poll tax until the reign of Emperor Julian in 363. In the late Roman Empire, Jews were still free to form networks of cultural and religious ties and enter into various local occupations. But after Christianity became the official religion of Rome and Constantinople in 380, Jews were increasingly marginalized, and brutally persecuted.
In Palestine and Mesopotamia, where Jewish religious scholarship was centered, the majority of Jews were still engaged in farming, as demonstrated by the preoccupation of early Talmudic writings with agriculture. In diaspora communities, trade was a common occupation, facilitated by the easy mobility of traders through the dispersed Jewish communities.
Throughout this period and into the early Middle Ages, some Jews assimilated into the dominant Greek and Latin cultures, mostly through conversion to Christianity.[15] In Palestine and Mesopotamia, the spoken language of Jews continued to be Aramaic, but elsewhere in the diaspora, most Jews spoke Greek. Conversion and assimilation were especially common within the Hellenized or Greek-speaking Jewish communities, amongst whom the Septuagint and Aquila of Sinope (Greek translations and adaptations of the Tanakh or Hebrew Bible) were the source of scripture. A remnant of this Greek-speaking Jewish population (the Romaniotes) survives to this day.
The Germanic invasions of the Western Roman Empire in the 5th century by tribes such as the Visigoths, Franks, Lombards, and Vandals caused massive economic and social instability within the western Empire, contributing to its decline. In the late Roman Empire, Jews are known to have lived in Cologne and Trier, as well as in what is now France. However, it is unclear whether there is any continuity between these late Roman communities and the distinct Ashkenazi Jewish culture that began to emerge about 500 years later. King Dagobert I of the Franks expelled the Jews from his Merovingian kingdom in 629. Jews in former Roman territories now faced new challenges as harsher anti-Jewish Church rulings were enforced.

 

[Shimshon]

Ashkenazi: Definition from Answers.com

Jews tracing their descent from ancestors who settled throughout northwestern Europe in the early Middle Ages; the preponderant section of world Jewry, long distinguishable from Sephardim and "Oriental" Jewish communities by virtue of their folkways, outlook, cultural heritage, and religious traditions. In the Hebrew Bible, Ashkenaz first denotes a grandson of Japheth and great-grandson of the patriarch Noah (Gen. 10:1-3; I Chr. 1:4-6); it also designates the territory of a (Scythian?) people located north of Mesopotamia (Jer. 51:27). Talmudic sources (Yoma 10a), followed by the prayer book of Amram Gaon (ninth cent.), however, identify Ashkenaz with Germamia or Germanna---and when speaking of the German language or homeland, Rashi likewise employs the term "Ashkenaz." By his time (11th cent.), it had come to mean Lotharingia or "Lother" in rabbinic parlance, a region embracing parts of the old Carolingian Empire (northeastern France, Lorraine, Flanders, and the Rhineland) where Jews who spoke Old French or Middle High German were developing a socio-religious life style of their own. Between 1050 and 1300, these Ashkenazi or "German" Jewish communities dominated the whole of France (apart from Provence), England and the Low Countries, Germany west of the Elbe, Switzerland, and northern Italy. Ashkenazim expelled from England (1290) and France (1306, 1394) fled elsewhere, mainly to Germany, Austria, and Poland. Renewed persecution, in both Germany (13th-15th centuries) and Poland-Lithuania (Cossack massacres of 1648-49), drove their descendants to other parts of Europe and even farther afield, One indication of this troubled history is the fact that the surname "Ashkenazi" can now mostly be found among Jews of North African or Turkish origin.