Are you Walking the Way Messiah walked or following an Imitator or imitation?

[Lulav]

Some believe that Jesus came and followed the law of his Father (which he was also with him when he gave the Commandments to his children) so now we don't have to, but how can that be correct?

As per Acts

1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: 3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:​

​

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and you shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.​

​

He showed himself to the Apostles whom he had chosen after his resurrection. He told them that they would be witnesses to him in Jerusalem, Samaria and to the farthest parts of the earth. Before he ascended to heaven he gave them many, many proofs of his resurrection. They were EYE WITNESSES X 6 of what is lawfully acceptable.

They then returned to the 'Upper room' with 120 present and discussed the replacement of Judas Iscariot. The perimeters for being eligible for this position where given by Peter as such.:

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,​

22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection. ​

And Matthias was chosen. "and he was numbered with the eleven apostles."


So in order to be a witness to who Messiah was and why he came and how he proved it and what he taught you had to have
physically known him from his Baptism with his cousin John, until that day he arose to heaven from the Mt of Olives.
They lived with him, day to day, witnessed his teachings and his obedience to the Father.

So we read in John these things:
1 John 2:1-6

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin.​

But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.​

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.​

And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. ​

Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,​

but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. ​

By this we may know that we are in him: ​

whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.​

​

I am the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE - no one comes to the Father except by me......​

​

Some don't understand the meaning behind 'walk' or 'Walking with God'. It doesn't mean to just put your feet one in front of another, but to 'walk in the right way'. Yeshua hinted at this when he said:​

​

13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.​

​

​

He is speaking of which path to follow, which path to 'walk' on.

We read from the beginning:

And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: 23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:​

24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.​

And then Noah

9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. 10And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.​

Proverbs says it well

Prov 3:5-6​

5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.​

​

6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.​

In the book of Acts James gives a good working definition of what 'to walk' means, he says:

17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. ​

To walk with God means to keep his commandments.


Thus what John says is speaking about keeping the laws of the LORD.

And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. ​

By this we may know that we are in him: ​

whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.​

​

​

WHOEVER says he abides in him (Messiah) should walk the same way he did, in obedience to the laws of His Father.​

​

​

OKAY, either grab your popcorn or sword, your choice but please meditate on these verses first , not just jumping in with trite rebuttal, instead concern yourself if you are someone who abides in HIM.​

​

​

​

​

 

[Bob S]

Lulav wrote:

Some believe that Jesus came and followed the law of his Father (which he was also with him when he gave the Commandments to his children) so now we don't have to, but how can that be correct?

Are you trying to tell us some "believers" do not believe Jesus followed the Laws given His children, Israel?

Yes, we believe we do not have to follow the Laws that Jesus followed. We believe it because Jesus said it. That is why it is correct.

Jn15:9-14 9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

 

[daq]

Lulav wrote:

Are you trying to tell us some "believers" do not believe Jesus followed the Laws given His children, Israel?

Yes, we believe we do not have to follow the Laws that Jesus followed. We believe it because Jesus said it. That is why it is correct.

Jn15:9-14 9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

Those who lay down their life for their friends may do so by utterly denying themselves, taking up their own stake or cross, and following the Master to the end as he says. Herein is the difference: actually wanting to be his disciple. But one cannot be his disciple if he or she will not walk in his teachings.

Luke 14:27 ASV
27 Whosoever doth not bear his own cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Luke 14:27 TS2009
27 “And whoever does not bear his stake and come after Me is unable to be My taught one.

In all of the companion statements concerning whosoever taking up their own stake and following him, the word generally rendered as life is actually psuche, the soul, and it is the same word for the soul in John 15:13 which you have quoted. Therefore the one with true love, the greatest love, will lay down his or her own soul, both for the Messiah and for his or her friends. One must absolutely do this if he or she will truly know and understand the Word and come to be in a position, ordained by God, to speak the truth to those they love and care about.

If one refuses to lay down his or her soul then the same cannot possibly have the whole truth. We must utterly deny ourselves, take up our stake, (cross), and follow the Messiah, (the walk, walking with him in his teachings, and this is also "abiding in the Vine").

Moreover to walk according to and in the Testimony of the Messiah is what Paul means by walking according to and in the Spirit: for the Testimony of the Master is Spirit and Life, (John 6:63), even the "new Spirit" of the renewed Covenant foretold in the Prophet Ezekiel, (Ezek 11:19, Ezek 18:31, Ezek 36:26-27).

 

[Lulav]

Lulav wrote: Some believe that Jesus came and followed the law of his Father (which he was also with him when he gave the Commandments to his children) so now we don't have to, but how can that be correct?​

Are you trying to tell us some "believers" do not believe Jesus followed the Laws given His children, Israel?

I think you need to step back and reread what I wrote. Let me emphasis the point above.

Some believe that Jesus came and followed the law of his Father

Spoiler

(which he was also with him when he gave the Commandments to his children)

so now we don't have to, but how can that be correct?

Yes, we believe we do not have to follow the Laws that Jesus followed. We believe it because Jesus said it. That is why it is correct.

Jn15:9-14 9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

So have you laid down your life in love?

There's nothing there that you post that says what you think it says.

'If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love', - can you list all the commands he handed down? They are in addition to Torah, not instead of.

'Just as I have kept my Father’s commands' - These are not the Torah given to Israel, although he did keep that which pertained to him, these were special pertaining to his mission. You can see that when he says: "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." that is the end of the commands the Father gave him.

 

[Lulav]

Yes, we believe we do not have to follow the Laws that Jesus followed. We believe it because Jesus said it. That is why it is correct.

Jn15:9-14 9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

So then all his teachings aren't for you except ones you believe allow you to not follow him?

The one who wrote the passage you quoted also wrote this:

'whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.'

So that means while he was on earth. So instead of answering with another verse you think gets you off the hook, why not address the walking part I thought I so thoroughly addressed in the OP?

 

[Bob S]

So then all his teachings aren't for you except ones you believe allow you to not follow him?

The one who wrote the passage you quoted also wrote this:

'whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.'

So that means while he was on earth. So instead of answering with another verse you think gets you off the hook, why not address the walking part I thought I so thoroughly addressed in the OP?

Because Jesus addressed the way He would like for us to live. He kept the laws of the old covenant and asks us to keep His laws found in the new covenant. May I remind you that the new covenant did not start until after the death of Jesus. And may I also remind you Jn explained what commandments we are to keep. 1JN3:19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

So, the plan of salvation is very simple, yet some even try so hard and make it so difficult.

Do you really know how to walk the way Jesus walked? Is every Christian able to walk all over healing and raising people from the dead. You who uphold the Sabbath commandment are to work 6 days. How would that fit in with walking the way Jesus walked. Jesus didn't make a living, raise a family and send them to college. He didn't pay taxes or make payments on a place to live. You tell me that I should walk the way Jesus did. Please explain just how you accomplish that.

I truly believe to walk the walk is to do what Jesus asked us to do, LOVE EACH OTHER as Jesus loves us. Jesus didn't sin and we wouldn't either. That is the great lesson we are supposed to learn from the Holy Writ.

1Cor13: 13 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Some tell us the Character of God is the Law. God showed us what His character really is through His Son who loves us so much that He has taken on all of our sins and became the sacrifice for all mankind. That is true LOVE my friend. That is the walk Jesus walked.

 

[Bob S]

Those who lay down their life for their friends may do so by utterly denying themselves, taking up their own stake or cross, and following the Master to the end as he says. Herein is the difference: actually wanting to be his disciple. But one cannot be his disciple if he or she will not walk in his teachings.

Luke 14:27 ASV
27 Whosoever doth not bear his own cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Luke 14:27 TS2009
27 “And whoever does not bear his stake and come after Me is unable to be My taught one.

In all of the companion statements concerning whosoever taking up their own stake and following him, the word generally rendered as life is actually psuche, the soul, and it is the same word for the soul in John 15:13 which you have quoted. Therefore the one with true love, the greatest love, will lay down his or her own soul, both for the Messiah and for his or her friends. One must absolutely do this if he or she will truly know and understand the Word and come to be in a position, ordained by God, to speak the truth to those they love and care about.

If one refuses to lay down his or her soul then the same cannot possibly have the whole truth. We must utterly deny ourselves, take up our stake, (cross), and follow the Messiah, (the walk, walking with him in his teachings, and this is also "abiding in the Vine").

Moreover to walk according to and in the Testimony of the Messiah is what Paul means by walking according to and in the Spirit: for the Testimony of the Master is Spirit and Life, (John 6:63), even the "new Spirit" of the renewed Covenant foretold in the Prophet Ezekiel, (Ezek 11:19, Ezek 18:31, Ezek 36:26-27).

Hi Dak, I wonder why you folks are not able to take many verses from scripture without changing their literal meaning. Many scholars with years of study have taken manuscripts and given us the best possible meaning of words we use today. That doesn't seem to be good enough for Messianic folks. You have to reinterpret to meet your preconceived beliefs. For instance, you use the word "renewed" when writing about Jer 31:31. Over 40 translations say "new", none say "renewed". You are trying to insinuate that the new covenant is not really a new one, it is the old one reemphasized. Just that one instance causes me to doubt what you write and if some are teaching you to believe the new covenant is not actually new then you too should wonder.

Concerning Luke 14:27 Jesus knew the danger He was going to encounter. He needed soldiers who would leave families behind and face the same fate He knew would happen to Him. This was a warning and those who, in their hearts, accepted HIs call failed. Are they lost because they didn't hang on a cross with Jesus? The question becomes do we have true faith in Jesus that if we face the same fate as he did, we will not waiver. I will tell you this, none of us will keep from wavering because of our own will, it is our undivided belief in our Savior that will keep us from cursing those who do us ill.

Our walking the walk Jesus walked is doing what Jesus did. What did Jesus do? He loved/loves us. He loved us so much that He was willing to leave Heaven, be born a human in this sinful World, give and teach mankind the greatest command ever given, and die that we might live.

 

[Lulav]

Because Jesus addressed the way He would like for us to live.

Let me ask you a question, and honestly consider it.

"one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”​

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. ​

But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”​

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”​

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ​

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth.”​

Is the Messiah not addressing not only how to live to and how to gain eternal life here by telling him to Keep the Commandments?

May I remind you that the new covenant did not start until after the death of Jesus.

So are you saying, for this man in particular (but it could well be for all men) that after Messiah died, his words became null and void? That this man either:

A. No longer had to keep the commandments
B. Had done them his whole life in vain
C. Could gain eternal life now just by believing in the Messiah, whom he knew in person
D. All of the above

He kept the laws of the old covenant and asks us to keep His laws found in the new covenant.

Do you believe Bob that Jesus is God? If so, do you believe what John wrote at the beginning of his Gospel?

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

So if you do believe that then you have to believe that the Messiah was the one who wrote on those tablets
and that those commandments were His commandments.

When he came to earth he did not give different commandments, instead he corrected the understanding that was prevalent at that time on how to properly execute them. Why bother going to all that trouble and teaching if they were to be nullified in under a few years? Makes no sense, does it?

 

[Lulav]

I wonder why you folks are not able to take many verses from scripture without changing their literal meaning. Many scholars with years of study have taken manuscripts and given us the best possible meaning of words we use today. That doesn't seem to be good enough for Messianic folks. You have to reinterpret to meet your preconceived beliefs.

It's called a new paradigm Bob, Hundreds of years of the powers that be telling you what something means does not make it so. The way you see things is based on an interpretation told you by someone who either has an agenda or is just regurgitating what they learned in 'seminary'.

 

[Lulav]

And may I also remind you Jn explained what commandments we are to keep. 1JN3:19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Yes, the ones to Keep are God's commandments and a newly added one you could say is to believe in Yeshua and to love one another as he commanded us ----Love your neighbor as yourself was already a commandment as Yeshua answered was the second greatest commandment.

36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” ​

37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. ​

39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”​

See, already in existence BEFORE he died.

"The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them."

So, the plan of salvation is very simple, yet some even try so hard and make it so difficult.

We aren't talking Salvation here so don't try to derail this.

Do you really know how to walk the way Jesus walked?

I try my best everyday, my foundation is the Torah and his commentary given in the Gospels.

Is every Christian able to walk all over healing and raising people from the dead.

That was the mission of Yeshua, some of those special commandments only for him given by the Father.

You who uphold the Sabbath commandment are to work 6 days.

Correct, and I make sure I don't laze around on Sunday, sometimes I even start after sundown, especially in the winter when it comes sooner.

How would that fit in with walking the way Jesus walked.

He walked in obedience to the Torah

Jesus didn't make a living, raise a family and send them to college.

He didn't? then why did his group have one who kept the finances? How did they go into the town in Samaria and get food??? WE don't know about raising a family and I won't go into that here , but College? There's something that's so ingrained nowadays that it's like it's a given. It's just a place to be more indoctrinated in things that go against GOD.

He didn't pay taxes or make payments on a place to live.

Not correct

Matt 17:24 When they had come to Capernaum, those who received the temple tax came to Peter and said, “Does your Teacher not pay the temple tax?”​

25 He said, “Yes.”​

And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, “What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers?”​

26 Peter said to Him, “From strangers.”​

Jesus said to him, “Then the sons are free.​

27 Nevertheless, lest we offend them, go to the sea, cast in a hook, and take the fish that comes up first. And when you have opened its mouth, you will find a piece of money; take that and give it to them for Me and you.”​

​

He was itinerant , traveling as part of his work in the LORD.

"And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.”"​

You tell me that I should walk the way Jesus did. Please explain just how you accomplish that.

I truly believe to walk the walk is to do what Jesus asked us to do, LOVE EACH OTHER as Jesus loves us. Jesus didn't sin and we wouldn't either. That is the great lesson we are supposed to learn from the Holy Writ.

1Cor13: 13 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Some tell us the Character of God is the Law. God showed us what His character really is through His Son who loves us so much that He has taken on all of our sins and became the sacrifice for all mankind. That is true LOVE my friend. That is the walk Jesus walked.

Love is part of the commandments of GOD. If you don't understand that, I can't explain it to you.

 

[Bob S]

Let me ask you a question, and honestly consider it.

"one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”​

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. ​

But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”​

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”​

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ​

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth.”​

Is the Messiah not addressing not only how to live to and how to gain eternal life here by telling him to Keep the Commandments?

I believe for some reason you didn't include the punch verse. 21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” You tell us we must walk as Jesus walked. Have you given all you have in your walk? Maybe you have an excuse. His keeping all the commandments didn't make him perfect now did it?

Another thing, Jesus didn't mention his having to keep all the ritual laws Jews were under. The man asked specifically which ones and Jesus specifically mentioned were dealing with morality and the great command to love our neighbors. They all are part of the Royal Law of Love so beautifully portrayed in the New Testament.

Questions for you:
Did Jesus keep the commands of the covenant He lived under? Did Jesus give mankind a new command for us to live under? Remember He told us it was new and after doing a search I certainly couldn't find it in the covenant given only to Israel. Hint Jn13:34 and Jn 15:9-14

So are you saying, for this man in particular (but it could well be for all men) that after Messiah died, his words became null and void? That this man either
A. No longer had to keep the commandments

B. Had done them his whole life in vain

C. Could gain eternal life now just by believing in the Messiah, whom he knew in person

D. All of the above

I have answered these many times. The New Covenant was not ratified until Calvary where Jesus ratified the New Covenant with His Blood. Jesus lived under the old covenant laws. Those were the laws He kept a taught. Jesus did prepare the Jews for the covenant to come by giving them/us the Royal Law of Love. Love others as I have loved you. How much did Jesus love us? He took the sins of the World upon Himself and gave His life for us making it possible for every human being to have eternal life. In return He asks us to believe in Him and love others as He loves us. Loving others is keeping His commands. We do not gain any merits by keeping the rituals given only to Israel. In fact, all of those rituals would be a distraction in our walk with Jesus.

When was the last time you kept the law of stoning someone? Jesus lived under that law. He also would have been sinning if He trimmed His sideburns. Do the men in your congregation trim their sideburns. Yes, that statement and question seem trivial, but no more than your insistence that we must live as those before the ratification of the New Covenant.

Do you believe Bob that Jesus is God? If so, do you believe what John wrote at the beginning of his Gospel?

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

So if you do believe that then you have to believe that the Messiah was the one who wrote on those tablets
and that those commandments were His commandments.

Look Lulav, who am I to disregard the words of Jesus where He told us He kept His Father's commandments. Seems like you are by your statement. The Godhead is a mystery to the most learned theologian. I do not intend to argue with you on something we both are not privy. Jesus said and I believe it. He kept the laws of the old covenant and asks us to keep the Law of Love. In 1Jn3 John tells us we are of the truth if we believe in Jesus and keep His command to love. I appreciate your zealousness and I am thankful that you are a Christian serving Jesus. I was SDA for many years. I felt that my salvation depended on keeping some of the commands of the old covenant. I tried to deny my salvation depended on how well I kept Sabbath and adhered to the dietary laws and oh yes, tithing. I was lying to myself. I really believed I had to do those things in order to be saved. Salvation by works. I have no idea if Messianic beliefs are similar, but if they are then you are going against everything Paul wrote concerning the subject.

When he came to earth he did not give different commandments, instead he corrected the understanding that was prevalent at that time on how to properly execute them. Why bother going to all that trouble and teaching if they were to be nullified in under a few years? Makes no sense, does it?

No, it doesn't Lulav, we should never eliminate any scripture, there is something to glean from all. Every one of the commands Jesus corrected are part of His new command to love others as He loves us. Any command that deals with morality anywhere in all of scripture is part of our new command. The ritual commands given only to Israel didn't concern gentiles, and they still do not today. That is why Paul wrote Eph 2:
14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

I pray this helps explain where I stand in my relationship with Jesus my Savior and friend.

 

[daq]

Darkness is over the world, and who wants to be the Messiah's disciple any more ? At all ? Even when He was still walking on earth teaching, many of His Own disciples left Him, walked away from Him, saying His Words were too difficult for them. So it is today, still, only many times worse.

Many twist the words of Paul to cancel the Word of Elohim in the Torah, and to abrogate the Word of Elohim in the Testimony of the Messiah in the Gospel accounts: and in so doing they prove Luke 11:24-26, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-11, Ezekiel 28:1-7, and the whole Torah and the Apocalypse to be relevant and true.

 

[Lulav]

I don't think many have to twist the words, Peter even said they were hard to understand. Why would God make his message hard to understand? It seems to me that it is like reading a letter but reading between the lines. Or chewing on the meat but spitting out the bones.