Are We Obligated to Sin?

[PrincetonGuy]

Are Christians Obligated to Sin?

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Are Christians Obligated to Sin?

No, 1 Jn 2:1 say's John wrote his letter "so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin..." In other words, John's intent was to not have Christians commit sin. He then uses the uncertain conditional participle "if" not the definite "when" preceding "anybody does sin". In other words, John doesn't want Christians to sin and he does not expect them to.

 

[depthdeception]

No, 1 Jn 2:1 say's John wrote his letter "so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin..." In other words, John's intent was to not have Christians commit sin. He then uses the uncertain conditional participle "if" not the definite "when" preceding "anybody does sin". In other words, John doesn't want Christians to sin and he does not expect them to.

No. In fact, Christians should not sin.

 

[5stringJeff]

No. Read Romans 6. We are freed from the bondage of sin, meaning that we are not obligated to sin.

 

[BalaamsAss51]

So since we all sin, we are not Christians?

Pax

 

[5stringJeff]

So since we all sin, we are not Christians?

Pax

No... since we are all Christians, we are not obligated to live a sinful life.

 

[BalaamsAss51]

Hello gopjeff.

Never met a Christian who didn't sin. Never will. We are "obligated" to live a sinful life because we are sinners. Being made Christians doesn't mean we no longer sin.

Pax

 

[FreezBee]

Are Christians Obligated to Sin?

Not sure what you mean

Sin is transgression of the will of God. Christians are of course not obligated to transgress the will of God, but God will forgive our transgressions - well, sort of, Jesus will say that you're a friend of his, and then it should be ok!

Seriously: Christians will sin, not because of any obligation, but because onæy God cannot sin - humans are under the condition of sin because they are humans. However our sins do not count against us in the eyes of God.

Some may disagree with this, but that's what I've been told


cheers

- FreezBee

 

[ghs1994]

I have always believed that I have been freed of sin's wrath, but not from sin itself.

 

[Honibee]

No... since we are all Christians, we are not obligated to live a sinful life.

Appreciate your take on this, gopjeff. I think the key word is 'obligated'. Are we 'forced' to sin? Romans 6 says we are free from the power of sin- sin no longer has dominion over us. The choice is ours as to whether or not we sin- no obligaiton on our part, though. PTL!

Blessings in Him,
~H

 

[depthdeception]

Sin is transgression of the will of God. Christians are of course not obligated to transgress the will of God, but God will forgive our transgressions - well, sort of, Jesus will say that you're a friend of his, and then it should be ok!

What do you mean by "sort of?" Either the forgiveness of sins is possible or not.

Seriously: Christians will sin, not because of any obligation, but because onæy God cannot sin - humans are under the condition of sin because they are humans.

This is gnosticism. Humans are not sinful because they are human--they sin because they are separated from God. To say that humans sin because they are human is to say that God, by creating us as "human," actually desires that we be sinful. In such a perspective, it should be God--not us--who should be culpable for the sins of humanity.

However our sins do not count against us in the eyes of God.

How do you figure?

 

[depthdeception]

I have always believed that I have been freed of sin's wrath, but not from sin itself.

Then you have not been freed from anything. Sin is not something that is "outside" of you, as if the "sin" can be separated from the "sinner." We are sinners not because we are infected with some foreign disease; rather, we are sinners because we are separated from God. Therefore, if salvation does not bring freedom from sin (i.e., being a person separated from God), then it is actually the biggest crock ever foisted upon the mind of humanity and should be summarily rejected by all without qualification.

 

[DeaconDean]

Coming to saving grace in Jesus Christ means that the power of sin over us has been broken. We received forgivness for our sins, but we are still sinful. How can I explain it? Sin is in-born in us. We inherited it from Adam. It will with us until the day we die. Humans have a sinful nature. Yes, while we as Christians are not supposed to sin, I don't know anyone (period) on the face of the earth who does not sin. I only know of one person who ever lived that did not sin and that was my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Even Paul, the world's second best evangelist and missionary had trouble with this. And I don't know anyone who would doubt that Paul wasn't saved. Paul said:

"For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." Romans 7:15-25

Even Paul had trouble in this area.

 

[epitamyofthe9]

i dont quite understand what u mean by "obligated"

 

[depthdeception]

Coming to saving grace in Jesus Christ means that the power of sin over us has been broken. We received forgivness for our sins, but we are still sinful.

How are these two ideas synonymous? If the power of sin is broken, then there is no need to be bound to sin. If we are still sinful, and this necessarily so, then the power of sin is not truly broken and forgiveness does not mean a whole lot.

How can I explain it? Sin is in-born in us. We inherited it from Adam. It will with us until the day we die.

So death, which is what Christ came to overcome, literally becomes our "salvation" from sin? This is absurd, not to mention that it, as a doctrine, has been condemned by the historic Church as heresy (Gnosticism). Sin is not a "substance" that infects us, as if sin can exist apart from the person, as if sin is a "power" that roams around seeking to invade the soul. No, sin is the expression of the dysfunctional ways in which humans are related to God, to ourselves, and to others. We are sinful because we are separated from God. However, as Christ brings the "ministry of reconciliation" in the cross, we are enabled to be rightly related to God, self, and other once more, thereby able to be free from the cyclical power of sin.

Humans have a sinful nature. Yes, while we as Christians are not supposed to sin, I don't know anyone (period) on the face of the earth who does not sin. I only know of one person who ever lived that did not sin and that was my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

And why didn't Jesus sin? Because he was rightly related to his Father. Through his death, those who follow Christ become children of God and are thereby given the means by which they too can live without sin in emulation of their savior and Lord.

Even Paul, the world's second best evangelist and missionary had trouble with this. And I don't know anyone who would doubt that Paul wasn't saved. Paul said:

"For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." Romans 7:15-25

Even Paul had trouble in this area.

This is by far one of the most disputed Pauline texts. IF you want to establish your point, why not use one that is a bit more clear and undisputed by biblical scholars.

 

[DeaconDean]

So death, which is what Christ came to overcome, literally becomes our "salvation" from sin? This is absurd, not to mention that it, as a doctrine, has been condemned by the historic Church as heresy (Gnosticism). Sin is not a "substance" that infects us, as if sin can exist apart from the person, as if sin is a "power" that roams around seeking to invade the soul. No, sin is the expression of the dysfunctional ways in which humans are related to God, to ourselves, and to others. We are sinful because we are separated from God. However, as Christ brings the "ministry of reconciliation" in the cross, we are enabled to be rightly related to God, self, and other once more, thereby able to be free from the cyclical power of sin.

Here is a qoute from Charles Spurgeon:

The FACT, the great and terrible fact, that EVEN THE RIGHTEOUS HAVE IN THEM EVIL NATURES. Job said, "Behold, I am vile." He did not always know it. All through the long controversy he had declared himself to be just and upright: he had said, "My righteousness I will hold fast, and I will not let it go;" and notwithstanding he did scrape his body with a potsherd, and his friends did vex his mind with the most bitter revilings, yet he still held fast his integrity, and would not confess his sin; but when God came to plead with him, he had no sooner listened to the voice of God in the whirlwind, and heard the question, "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" than at once he put his finger on his lips, and would not answer God, but simply said, "Behold, I am vile."..we remind them of David, and we bid them read the 51st penitential Psalm, where we find him declaring that he was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did his mother conceive him; confessing, that he had sin within him. In many other places in the Psalms, David doth continually acknowledge and confess, that he is not perfectly rid of sin; that still the evil viper doth twist itself around his heart. Turn also, if you please, to Isaiah. There you have him, in one of his visions, saying that he was a man of unclean lips, and that he dwelt among a people of unclean lips. But more especially, under the gospel dispensation, you find Paul, in that memorable chapter we have been reading, declaring, that he found in "his members a law warring against the law of his mind, and bringing him into captivity to the law of sin." Yea, we hear that remarkable exclamation of struggling desire and intense agony, "O, wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Do you expect to find yourselves better saints than Job? do you imagine that the confession which befitted the mouth of David is too mean for you? are ye so proud, that ye will not exclaim with Isaiah, "I also am a man of unclean lips?" Or rather, have ye progressed so far in pride, that ye dare to exalt yourselves above the laborious Apostle Paul, and to hope that in you, that is, in your flesh, there dwelleth any good thing? If ye do think yourselves to be perfectly pure from sin, hear ye the word of God: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we say we have no sin, we make God a liar."
Charles Spurgeon, Sermon entitled: "Indwelling Sin," delievered 6-1-1856

How can you say we don't have indwelling sin in us? I'm not saying we are obligated to sin, but that we do sin period, whether we want to or not. Not one Christian doesn't. Through Adam sin entered this world and we being desendants of Adam have that sinful nature in us. "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" Rom. 5:16

Exodus 20;5-6 shows us that Adams sins have been imputed to us.

 

[depthdeception]

Here is a qoute from Charles Spurgeon:

How can you say we don't have indwelling sin in us? I'm not saying we are obligated to sin, but that we do sin period, whether we want to or not. Not one Christian doesn't.

Everyone has a sinful nature, i.e., they are confronted by a world of sinful people and have within them the capacity to respond to this sinfulness with sin. However, just because someone has a sinful nature does not mean that they are sinful. That would be like saying because I am a heterosexual I am bound to act upon my heterosexual urges. There are plenty of Christians that do not sin. Therefore, either you do not know very many Christians, or you have a conceptually false understanding of "sin."

 

[DeaconDean]

There are plenty of Christians that do not sin.

The Bible is explict:If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we say we have no sin, we make God a liar." 1 John 5:10

 

[depthdeception]

The Bible is explict:If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we say we have no sin, we make God a liar." 1 John 5:10

From the same book, mind you. But I have like 10 verses compared to your one. From a hermeneutical standpoint, which do you think should take interpretative priority? Hmmm....

1Jo 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears,[1]we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
1Jo 3:3 Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure.
1Jo 3:4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
1Jo 3:5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. (So if we are unable to avoid sinning, apparently Christ has not been too successful in what he actually came to do...)
1Jo 3:6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. (You want an "explicit" text...I don't know how much clearer it can be stated).
1Jo 3:7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.
1Jo 3:8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. (Again, Christ came to free people from sin. If those who follow Christ are by definition still children of the devil because they cannot help but sin, there is no other conclusion that one can reach but that Christ has failed in his mission.)
1Jo 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1Jo 3:10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.


Your turn--we can do this proof-texting game all night, if you like...

 

[DeaconDean]

So what you are telling me is that since you come to saving faith, you have lead a perfect, sinless life?