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I said God always makes the first move...God reveals Himself to man...THEN man must decide if he wishes to follow God or not.
And the remark about dead men not hearing is rather silly. Everyone in a church hears the sermon. Some do not wish to answer the call.
No one interprets Paul as precluding free will except Predestinarians, Calvinists, Jansenists, and perhaps one or two other groups.
It's just Calvinists trying to inflate their tiny minority into a sizable proportion.
Why don't you explain compatiblist free will?Well, Calvinists believe in (compatibilist) free will, actually.
On matters of Grace, they're much the same as Thomist Catholics.
Easy.What did Jesus mean by the many are called but few are chosen?
Yes anyone can hear the Gospel but it is not given to all the ears to hear it.
Luke 8:10
On matters of Grace, they're much the same as Thomist Catholics.
Hey, let's hold off on the ad hominum, huh?
This is a common misunderstanding.
It's spelled "ad hominem,"
Following me around and making petty criticisms of my posts because I pointed out an instance of invalid logic in a different thread isn't overly helpful, and it's also against forum etiquette.
I've never heard of a Thomist Catholic.On matters of Grace, Calvinists are much the same as Thomist Catholics. I've confirmed this in conversations between Calvinists and Thomists.
Sorry, spellchek fail. But please stop, anyway.
No, sorry, that's just paranoia on your part.
I've never heard of a Thomist Catholic.
I looked it up on the net and it says that Thomas Aquinas did believe in free will.
How does that make them the same as Calvinists??
Thanks. I thought I understood....Thomists and Calvinists both emphasize aspects of God's ad extra activity that seem, prima facie, to be in tension with free will (e.g. participation, causality, sovereignty). Yet when one digs beyond superficial appearances they will find that Thomists affirm free will while Calvinists deny it (and you are right about Thomas Aquinas' position). This is of course why, according to Catholic teaching, the Calvinist understanding of grace is heretical while the Thomist understanding is not.
The core difference between Calvin and Thomas is found in De Malo, Question 6, Article 1.
Oh boy....Thomists and Calvinists both emphasize aspects of God's ad extra activity that seem, prima facie, to be in tension with free will (e.g. participation, causality, sovereignty). Yet when one digs beyond superficial appearances they will find that Thomists affirm free will while Calvinists deny it (and you are right about Thomas Aquinas' position). This is of course why, according to Catholic teaching, the Calvinist understanding of grace is heretical while the Thomist understanding is not.
The core difference between Calvin and Thomas is found in De Malo, Question 6, Article 1.
Oh boy....
It's in French and I can't translate it for some reason.
Will work on this tomorrow, unless you have a good link?
He told us in Luke 8:10What needs to be asked is WHY Jesus spoke in parables.
It would be interesting to know why YOU believe He spoke in parables.
None of which address many are called few are chosen.Here are some reasons:
Where did they get the approved garment? How did they merit the garment?Not only did the called have to enter the banquet to attend,,,but they had to be properly dressed...
Indeed. I guess God is just waiting for people to accept Jesus to Predestinate them.the proper dressing is Jesus.
Of course. The many were called and the few were chosen. You seem to think somehow the people at the banquet merited the garment that was acceptable.Those that were not dressed properly were cast out...those that were dressed properly celebrated with the King.
God does not cast out for no reason at all. ALL THE WORLD is called. The World means The World...it does not mean a "type"of person. If I invite the world to write to me,,,it means EVERYONE...not just a plumber here or a teacher there.
Another reason is because Jesus wanted some effort to be made to understand t he parable. Some didn't care enough, some would never understand anything. People had to look into their heart to see if they could accept what He was saying and if they wanted to be a member of the Kingdom (here on earth).
Yet when one digs beyond superficial appearances they will find that Thomists affirm free will while Calvinists deny it
I've never heard of a Thomist Catholic.
I looked it up on the net and it says that Thomas Aquinas did believe in free will.
How does that make them the same as Calvinists??
Actually, Calvinists accept (compatibilist) free will.
Thomists are followers of Thomas Aquinas. Traditionally, that includes the Dominican Order. The Thomists had a big dustup with the Jesuits on grace a few centuries back.
On matters of grace, the Thomist view of predestination is much like the Calvinist one (although Bañezian Thomists go further: they believe that you can be predestined to enter a genuine state of grace and still be predestined to go to hell after that).
So do many atheist materialists. "Compatibilist free will" is just contemporary academic jargon for a disbelief in the colloquial understanding of free will.
For those who do not know, compatibilists believe that free will is compatible with causal determinism.
Well, that shows a substantial lack of understanding of the issues.
Compatibilist free will says that you do the thing that you want to do. I'm having eggs for breakfast; that's what I want.
Libertarian free will says that you could have done something else. I'm having eggs for breakfast, but I might have chosen oatmeal.
Libertarian free will is, of course, incompatible both with predestination and with the foreknowledge of God (because if God foresaw that I would have eggs, it would be impossible for me to have oatmeal).
Compatibilism is the thesis that free will is compatible with determinism.
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