Are we free to sin?

[pyramid33]

Is it okay to sin since we are saved by grace?

 

[BobRyan]

Is it okay to sin since we are saved by grace?

1 John 2:1 "These things I write to you that you sin NOT"

So then "not ok" to sin

1 John 2:1 "BUT IF anyone does sin we have an advocate with the Father" (Jesus Christ as our High Priest Heb 9)

So "not ok" - but also "Not fatal" because we have Jesus as our Advocate.

 

[Bob S]

When telling us what is transgression of the Law our SDA and Messianic friends quote from scripture "Transgression of the Law". It seems simple, but when we examine the two belief systems, we find a great deal of differences as to what is transgression. SDAs will tell us the law is the ten commandments, and from the book of the law tithing laws and clean meat laws. Salvation depends on whether or not one observes the Sabbath. One Messianic movement tells transgression is: "Sin is regarded as any transgression against the Torah and is cleansed by the shed blood of Yeshua." learnreligions.com/beliefs-and-practices-of-messianic-jews-700971. Another group of Messianic Jews continue to follow the commandments and traditions in the Jewish culture, but understand the salvation of Jesus Christ serves as an atonement, or payment for sin—not the act of observing the Jewish Holy Days.

New covenant believers do not attach any of the rituals of the old covenant to our belief system. Under the new covenant Jews are free from the ritual commands and all gentiles, who were never under the old covenant, are included in the new covenant. We are all one in Christ.

 

[daq]

"Is it okay to sin since we are saved by grace?"

Everyone who sins has a strong man in his house, (and of course, sooner or later, everyone sins). The strong man of the house cannot be bound without the instructions of the Father.

John 2:24-25 ASV
24 But Jesus did not trust himself unto them, for that he knew all men,
25 and because he needed not that any one should bear witness concerning man; for he himself knew what was in man.

 

[Bob S]

Perhaps you could stick to answering the question based on your own beliefs and not speak on other denominations behalf that you do not belong to and misrepresenting them.

I wonder why you didn't defend the beliefs I misrepresented. (according to you) I didn't spend forty years in the SDA church without learning the belief system. Sorry, but you cannot pull the wool over my eyes.

 

[daq]

"Is it okay to sin since we are saved by grace?"

Everyone who sins has a strong man in his house, (and of course, sooner or later, everyone sins). The strong man of the house cannot be bound without the instructions of the Father.

John 2:24-25 ASV
24 But Jesus did not trust himself unto them, for that he knew all men,
25 and because he needed not that any one should bear witness concerning man; for he himself knew what was in man.

For example the strong man of the house is a prince, the prince of the power of the air, as Paul calls him. And this prince in Daniel the Prophet is the Prince of Yavan, (Greece), mentioned in the vision of Daniel 10:20.

Daniel 10:20 KJV
20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia [Sar Yavan] shall come.

Moreover this mention of Sar Yavan is a reference back to Daniel 8, where Yavan is expounded more fully by the shaggy he-goat symbolism of Yavan: and in that passage we are told that the he-goat comes across the face of the earth from the west without touching the ground, and thus, the prince of the power of the air.

Daniel 8:5 KJV
5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

Paul writes to a total of seven congregations, just as there are also seven congregations in the Apocalypse, and of the seven congregations at least five of them are in the territory of Yavan, but more likely six including the Galatians, while Rome was probably not considered Yavan.

What does the great horn or conspicuous horn between the eyes of the he-goat represent aside from the fact that we are told this is the first king? His focus is on his own power and strength.

Deuteronomy 11:18-21 KJV
18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
19 And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
20 And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates:
21 That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth.

The strong man is bound by way of the supernal Torah of the Master.
Those without have the great horn of Yavan between their eyes instead of the Word.

Ephesians 2:1-3 KJV
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Luke 11:20-26 KJV
20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

Does anyone see any exceptions to the above Testimony of the Master?
And who shall live when El does this?

 

[Soyeong]

Is it okay to sin since we are saved by grace?

No. In Psalms 119:29-30, David wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness, so this has always been the one and only say of salvation by grace through faith. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His way that he might know Him and Israel too, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is eternal life (John 17:3), which again is salvation by grace through faith. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to obey His law is itself part of the content of His gift of salvation, which does not permit us to be free to sin. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so living in obedience to through faith is intrinsically part of the concept of Jesus saving us from not living in obedience to it.

 

[Soyeong]

When telling us what is transgression of the Law our SDA and Messianic friends quote from scripture "Transgression of the Law". It seems simple, but when we examine the two belief systems, we find a great deal of differences as to what is transgression. SDAs will tell us the law is the ten commandments, and from the book of the law tithing laws and clean meat laws. Salvation depends on whether or not one observes the Sabbath. One Messianic movement tells transgression is: "Sin is regarded as any transgression against the Torah and is cleansed by the shed blood of Yeshua." learnreligions.com/beliefs-and-practices-of-messianic-jews-700971. Another group of Messianic Jews continue to follow the commandments and traditions in the Jewish culture, but understand the salvation of Jesus Christ serves as an atonement, or payment for sin—not the act of observing the Jewish Holy Days.

New covenant believers do not attach any of the rituals of the old covenant to our belief system. Under the new covenant Jews are free from the ritual commands and all gentiles, who were never under the old covenant, are included in the new covenant. We are all one in Christ.

I agree that when speaking about salvation it is important to correctly identify what exactly our salvation is from. In Matthew 1:21 salvation is from sin and we should seek to understand that in the context of how the people of that day understood what sin is. Likewise, in John 4:22, Jesus said that salvation is from the Jews, so the context of how Jews understand salvation is also relevant. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so New Covenant believers should not reject the Torah, especially because living in obedience to the Torah is intrinsically connected with the concept of salvation from living in transgression of it. The Bible never lists which laws are ritual laws and never even refers to the category of ritual law, so you should not interpret the authors of the Bible as referring to a category of law that you personally created. Christ embodied the nature of God by setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah, so it is contradictory for someone to want to be one in Christ while rejecting the Torah, which is why 1 John 2:6 says that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked.

 

[Bob S]

PHILLIPS
“Believe me,” returned Jesus, “the time is coming when worshipping the Father will not be a matter of ‘on this hill-side’ or ‘in Jerusalem’. Nowadays you are worshipping with your eyes shut. We Jews are worshipping with our eyes open, for the salvation of mankind is to come from our race. Yet the time is coming, yes, and has already come, when true worshippers will worship in spirit and in reality. Indeed, the Father looks for men who will worship him like that. God is spirit, and those who worship him can only worship in spirit and in reality.”

 

[Soyeong]

PHILLIPS
“Believe me,” returned Jesus, “the time is coming when worshipping the Father will not be a matter of ‘on this hill-side’ or ‘in Jerusalem’. Nowadays you are worshipping with your eyes shut. We Jews are worshipping with our eyes open, for the salvation of mankind is to come from our race. Yet the time is coming, yes, and has already come, when true worshippers will worship in spirit and in reality. Indeed, the Father looks for men who will worship him like that. God is spirit, and those who worship him can only worship in spirit and in reality.”

In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, in John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, so obedience to it is the way to worship God in spirit and in truth.

 

[St_Worm2]

Is it okay to sin since we are saved by grace?

Hello Pyramid33, I suppose it would be helpful to know what you meant by is it "okay" to sin (a true believer does not lose his/her salvation by sinning, for instance). Generally speaking however, ~no~, it's never OK for a believer to continue sinning (particularly as a lifestyle, like we all did before we were saved).

I think that the passage below is one that should be considered regarding this topic.

1 John 3​

6 No one who abides in Him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen Him or known Him. ​

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as He is righteous. ​

8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. ​

9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. ​

10 By this ~it is evident~ who the children of God are, and who the children of the devil are: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.​

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - one of Dr. Pink's quotes speaks to some of this, so I will include it here as well.