Are these data showing that creationism is hurting Christianity?

[Papias]

Are these data showing that creationism is hurting Christianity?

The personal experiences of many of us here (and the results of simply reasoning) have suggested for a long time that creationism gravely hurts Christianity. This could be by either of two ways. One is by driving away Christians when they are raised creationist (and told that they have to be creationist to be Christian), and who then later find that evolution is supported by overwhelming evidence. These people find out that they’ve been lied to about evolution, and may extend that to think that their whole Christian upbringing was a lie, and so they become atheists. The other is by making it look to educated Christians like Christianity is increasingly the domain of evidence deniers.

Does any data support either of these? If the first were true, we’d expect the growing numbers of atheists come from the ranks of creationists, as creationists leave creationism and Christianity together. Call that hypothesis A. Hypothesis B would be the second scenario, where the ranks of Theistic evolution supporters would shrink as the atheists grew. So do the data support A, B or neither?


Well, as many of us know, the % of people who are creationist and the % of people supporting theistic evolution has been largely unchanged in the US for about 30 years.

The new numbers may show the first real change.

As you can see, the % creationists may have had a real drop, to 40% from ~45%, not just noise. At the same time, the numbers of TE’s is still constant, and the numbers of atheists has increased. This would seem, at first glance, to support hypothesis A – that creationism is driving Christians from Christianity to become atheists.

I’m sure there are other mechanisms that could give these same data. However, it is striking that after ~30 years of little movement in the creationist/TE numbers, we may now be seeing changes.

Papias

 

[Optimax]

Evolution is "The Theory of Evolution".

A Theory which starts(even though not stated) with the premises that God is a liar.

 

[CryptoLutheran]

Evolution is "The Theory of Evolution".

General Relativity is "The Theory of General Relativity".

A Theory which starts(even though not stated) with the premises that God is a liar.

That is a patently false statement. It does have the premise that Genesis 1 is not literal. Very different.

Creationism, on the other hand, does claim that God is a liar.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Optimax]

General Relativity is "The Theory of General Relativity".



That is a patently false statement. It does have the premise that Genesis 1 is not literal. Very different.

Creationism, on the other hand, does claim that God is a liar.

-CryptoLutheran

The "theory" you mentioned is not a biblical subject and is therefore irrelevant to this discussion.

As far as the other comment. God said that He is The Creator.

That is what I am saying as well.

Too say man evolved is disagreeing with what God said He did and is saying God lied.

Funny how the created wants to stands up and set God straight, and they were not even there when it happened. God was there. God is The Creator of all things including man(that includes you and me). He was there, yet many(the created) persist in "knowing more" than the Almighty God.

 

[Greg1234]

The conventional route is "TE" to materialist. Some people though, see through the "man was created by random mutations used by God" and just smother the "used by God" suffix. Hence the express to materialism. Some would go from Creationist to "TE" while those who were pending simply drop through the cracks. The most important depiction here is a drop in Creationism leads to a rise in materialism. This data is not surprising nor new. The potency of Darwin's claims is clearly seen even with the simplest grasp of God in relation to its creation, and the first line of evidence for it in the material sphere. On one end you have Darwinists celebrating a drop in Creationism, on the other end you have materialists celebrating a rise in materialism. Its only natural that you now attempt to blame creationism for people adopting a godless lifestyle. Blame the neutraliztion of man in relation to his creator, on a position which recognizes and upholds this link. And thats coming from the member of a faction which fervently debases the competence and integrity of biblical authors. It's only a wonder if you're not also crying "Creationism let me do it" for this one. In reality though, there is the responsibility for actions. Neither a shift to materialism, nor the undermining of biblical integrity (along with other revered intermediaries) have anything to do with Creationism. Creationism being a corollary of regard for the rest of the evidence along with immunity towards speculations fully inclined to a relegation of same.

Darwinism may persist as long as a materialistic say on the origin of life needs to be financed. This doesn't mean that Creationists need to forsake the evidence and adopt a priniciple on the horse that its right, because it excludes the supernatural. You guys are way ahead of yourselves on that line of reasoning. The belief in an adhesion of religious beginnings to ignorance only dreamt of today, has to be sold across first, then Darwinism gains enough power to dismiss data.

 

[Assyrian]

The most important depiction here is a drop in Creationism leads to a rise in materialism.

So the failure of creationism leads to a rise in materialism?

 

[Greg1234]

So the failure of creationism leads to a rise in materialism?

Indeed, thats what you'd expect from those insufferable tests showing random mutations vibrantly viable, those experiments showing adaptation has no intelligent mechanism, those wretched indefinitely mutable experimental organisms and so forth.

 

[philadiddle]

Indeed, thats what you'd expect from those insufferable tests showing random mutations vibrantly viable, those experiments showing adaptation has no intelligent mechanism, those wretched indefinitely mutable experimental organisms and so forth.

I agree, gosh darn science, showing us that rain happens via natural process, and the sun's light is caused by physical reactions that don't need divine intervention.

Or, maybe all these things show the glory of the creator who is capable of creating a universe that doesn't need an intelligent controller to constantly interfere, but that idea would go against the doctrine of creationism that we've rooted our faith in, right Greg? I suppose as a compromise we could just have a double standard where we pick and choose natural mechanisms based on our narrow view of God instead of going where the evidence leads us, that will make it easier for folks like us.

 

[Bushido216]

Evolution is "The Theory of Evolution".

A Theory which starts(even though not stated) with the premises that God is a liar.

I also enjoying saying things that have no relation to the things said beforehand.

Here, my turn!

"Motorcycles don't have doors."

 

[laconicstudent]

Evolution is "The Theory of Evolution".

A Theory which starts(even though not stated) with the premises that God is a liar.

No, it doesn't. It simply does not. Theory of Evolution makes no mention of God whatsoever, much less as a starting premise.

 

[Greg1234]

I agree, gosh darn science, showing us that rain happens via natural process, and the sun's light is caused by physical reactions that don't need divine intervention.

And also showing us the previously mentioned. Gosh darn science.

Or, maybe all these things show the glory of the creator who is capable of creating a universe that doesn't need an intelligent controller to constantly interfere, but that idea would go against the doctrine of creationism that we've rooted our faith in, right Greg? I suppose as a compromise we could just have a double standard where we pick and choose natural mechanisms based on our narrow view of God instead of going where the evidence leads us, that will make it easier for folks like us.

Likr the evidence mentioned in the previous post. Its so difficult to not follow its outstanding conspicuousness. And given that the common denominator in learning about the sun and man is experimental empirical data, we don't merely substitute what we gather for speculations and trendy bias. Surely this would be double standards.

 

[AnswersInHovind]

Everyone! The Bible says God makes it rain right? But I just learned that rain actually comes from water evaporating and forming clouds, which eventually get dense enough to let the water fall back to the ground! The Bible lies! We can't trust its authority on anything!

 

[philadiddle]

Everyone! The Bible says God makes it rain right? But I just learned that rain actually comes from water evaporating and forming clouds, which eventually get dense enough to let the water fall back to the ground! The Bible lies! We can't trust its authority on anything!

It's obvious that scientists are wrong about rain because they are assuming a materialistic worldview. We have our narrow interpratations of scripture to guide us through this sea of secular materialism that calls itself "science".

 

[MacNeil, D.]

Evolution is "The Theory of Evolution".

A Theory which starts(even though not stated) with the premises that God is a liar.

Its this kind of misrepresentation of science, whether intentional or not, that is such a turn off.

 

[juvenissun]

So the failure of creationism leads to a rise in materialism?

It could also be the other way. It think it would be a more likely case.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

Does any data support either of these? If the first were true, we’d expect the growing numbers of atheists come from the ranks of creationists, as creationists leave creationism and Christianity together. Call that hypothesis A. Hypothesis B would be the second scenario, where the ranks of Theistic evolution supporters would shrink as the atheists grew. So do the data support A, B or neither?
...
As you can see, the % creationists may have had a real drop, to 40% from ~45%, not just noise. At the same time, the numbers of TE’s is still constant, and the numbers of atheists has increased. This would seem, at first glance, to support hypothesis A – that creationism is driving Christians from Christianity to become atheists.

This may be the case but it still seems to be correlation rather than causation. Remember that creationists judge us by the same standards - since evolution has been taught various social ills have increased. Does that mean evolution is evil?

Crime rates have increased since evolution has been taught in pulic schools.

 

[ActuallyThinking]

It's obvious that scientists are wrong about rain because they are assuming a materialistic worldview. We have our narrow interpratations of scripture to guide us through this sea of secular materialism that calls itself "science".

Although you sound like you're being sarcastic, I think when we are standing before God on judgement day He's not going to be impressed with our understanding of how rain works, but rather He is going to be impressed by the faith that we have placed in His word.

Don't kid yourself into thinking that our finite minds have some grandiose comprehension of the universe that allows us to change the meaning of what God has written for us. We are supposed to base our lives on Jesus and the message in the bible, not on what gets us a PhD and large salary (secular education).

 

[MacNeil, D.]

..., I think when we are standing before God on judgement day He's not going to be impressed with our understanding of how rain works, ....

How can you possibly know that? He might be annoyed that you abused your God-given intellect and wrote off the wonders of His creation by a childish belief in creationism.

 

[ActuallyThinking]

How can you possibly know that? He might be annoyed that you abused your God-given intellect and wrote off the wonders of His creation by a childish belief in creationism.

Paul certainly seemed to do well with his "childish" belief in creationism. He healed the sick without modern technology and made a very positive impact on the world.

Please note: I'm not saying that education and technology aren't any good, but they become idols to people who put them before God's word.

 

[MacNeil, D.]

....
Please note: I'm not saying that education and technology aren't any good, but they become idols to people who put them before God's word.

Yes, you are saying just that. For god's sake, just be honest about all this for once.