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Are there transitional fossils?

xianghua

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Even if the Zachelmie tracks were made by a tetrapod that lived before Tiktaalik, they are still Lower or Middle Devonian.


its doesnt matter. they still "out of order".



what evidence? there is no scientific evidence that a tetrapod can evolve from a fish.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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they also made a laser scanning and found that its was a real tetrapod. are you trying to claim that its not a real fossils and therefore evolution isnt false?

Where did they claim that?
And no, I am not. Nothing you have said in anyway shows that evolution is false.
 
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pshun2404

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its doesnt matter. they still "out of order".




what evidence? there is no scientific evidence that a tetrapod can evolve from a fish.

And yet they have imposed the notion onto generations and generations that this process is true and actually happened. Again a historical narrative made up to fit the pre-supposed theory (oops! hypothesis) is made up (='s science fiction) and we (the innocently inquiring student) is indoctrinated with this story as if it is an established (or "obvious") fact when in fact it is not. Pilbeam admits and discuses how this is sad shortcoming of paleo-anthropology, because the unfounded hypothesis becomes insisted on so much that it takes on the tone of being a law.
 
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xianghua

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Evolution can say for sure that transitional fossils exist. It cannot say for sure that we will find a particular transitional fossil.

so its not a prediction. even if we will find no fossil at all evolution will still be ok with this.


Likewise, when I see all the fossils that line up as evolution expects, then I find it hard to believe a designer kept putting more and more advanced animals out there, popping them into existence out of nothing, until finally it created the zebra.

replace the tomato with a car for instance. even with a self replicating one. do you still think that the best guess is that the car evolved at night into another car? and what if you will see a ferarri in the morning instead of your own car?




the problem is that those cars arent evolved from each other. so an order is some fossils cant be evidence for evolution.


So even if you prove the zebra was designed--but you haven't--you will not have proven that the DNA did not evolve.

so if i will prove to you that the zebra was designed, you will have no problem to accept a speciel creation instead of evolution, right?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Question for you: why is this whole supposed false narrative accepted almost universally by scientists across the world and is only opposed by anonymous people on the internet and people who have zero scientific credentials?
 
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pshun2404

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Where did they claim that?
And no, I am not. Nothing you have said in anyway shows that evolution is false.

True, but the actual demonstrable fact that he presented showed a creature like Tiltaalik is NOT "transitional" which is what we have continually been indoctrinated with. It is not representatibe of a stage BETWEEN fish and tetrapods. So far all we see is development of variation within the same organism and since all evidence ONLY SHOWS THAT and all lab experiments done ONLY CONFIRM THAT then that is what we should teach.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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How and why isn't the tiktaalik not a transitional fossil, in your eyes, even though it shows a transition from fishapod to true tetrapod?
 
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xianghua

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Warden_of_the_Storm

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its actually was your argument. here is again:



so finding out of order fossil will disprove evolution or not?

But we haven't found out of order fossils. Being at the borderline of the age ranges of when certain transitionals existed is not the same as being out of order.
 
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pshun2404

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Question for you: why is this whole supposed false narrative accepted almost universally by scientists across the world and is only opposed by anonymous people on the internet and people who have zero scientific credentials?

Because they want it to be true and interpret the actual data through the hypothesis, instead of letting the actual data SHAPE the hypothesis (which is what good science does).

Then some make idiot assumptions like this quote from doubtingmerle..."I find it hard to believe a designer kept putting more and more advanced animals out there, popping them into existence out of nothing, until finally it created the zebra" as if that's what educated people who believe in a creator (like Francis Collins for example) actually believe. He really is so clueless.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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But the data is shaping the hypothesis. What you are suggesting scientists do is start WITH the explanation and work backwards.
Also, you haven't actually answered my question as to WHY almost virtually all scientists across the world accept the theory of evolution.
 
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xianghua

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But we haven't found out of order fossils. Being at the borderline of the age ranges of when certain transitionals existed is not the same as being out of order.

so where is this borderline actually? 50 milion years? 60? 70?
 
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pshun2404

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Warden_of_the_Storm said:
For example, finding birds below all avian dinosaurs would falsify evolution?

No not at all! What it falsifies is the made up story that Archaeopteryx is a transitional BETWEEN reptile and birds. Now it MAY turn out that in the future we MAY find other evidence but for now we must stop indoctrinating and stick to educating. Teach them Archae is NOT a transitional between reptiles and birds and that some people "BELIEVE" that a process like this happened but we have no actual proof.

Then allow for and teach other OPINIONS on the data, and supply their reasoning, and let the students make up their own minds, thus encouraging real critical thinking. Stop telling them what to think and start teaching them HOW TO THINK and we will get a better class of scholars for the future.

Do you at least agree that if we did this we would get that?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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so where is this borderline actually? 50 milion years? 60? 70?

I don't know, and for the sake of being actually intellectual, do not take that as an admission that the theory of evolution is wrong because it most certainly is not. It's just an admission that I personally do not know.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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No, we wouldn't get that because A) it would not be an intellectually honest admission of what the facts show us. In fact, it would outright lying. And B), letting students "make up their own minds" is the same phrase used by proponents of Young Earth Creationism who want their pseudo-scientific, non-religious and idolatrous views be put on the same level as all other mainstream knowledge.
 
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pshun2404

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a) I did answer your question very precisely, and
b) That is exactly what happened (and happens) starting a century ago. Yes they begin with the assumption the hypothesis is correct, then interpret the actual evidence though these rose colored glasses. We can see this very clearly in the work of the Leakys in the Olduvau gorge (and elsewhere but this was a whopper for which they got so much acclaim and tons of funding)

Do not forget that scientific data and the explanations "scientists" give us to explain it. are not always the same thing.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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But they do they want it to be true? That's what I'm asking.
And your knowledge of the history of evolution is just absolutely laughable. You talk of a bias for accepting evolution, but I can clearly see your own bias coming through.
 
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pshun2404

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I don't know, and for the sake of being actually intellectual, do not take that as an admission that the theory of evolution is wrong because it most certainly is not. It's just an admission that I personally do not know.

Now that is correct...you as well as they DO NOT KNOW. So why teach it as a fact and fail those who disagree or immediately dismiss alternative explanations. What? Because they have no proof? But you have none either, so what makes your unfounded assumption any more valuable than any one else's unfounded assumption? At least what we can demonstrate here is what is demonstrable (a fact), your assumption is not (a fiction)...
 
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