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Please don't take offence to this but wouldn't you be happier at a Seventh Day Baptist Church? Have you tried one?
Shalom,
Lebesgue
Lebesgue, I thought we had already covered this?
http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=44015317#post44015317
Not sure what the blind reference is for; I never said you were blind. I posted those quotes because you were acting as if what Lebesgue heard about people being visited by demons impersonating their dead loved ones and being deceived into rejecting Adventist "truths" isn't taught in mainstream Adventism. It is. It's not some "whacked out," extremist version of Adventism; it's what EGW wrote, so unless the SDA Church stops accepting her writings as "a continuing and authoritative source of truth," it's a part of mainstream Adventism.
This reminds me of a prophecy seminar I watched on 3ABN. The speaker was telling a story of an encounter with a spirit and how he ran away as fast as he could.
There is another perspective here. We are not taught in the Scripture to run from evil spirits, but to tell them to go. They do not have power over us, but we who have God living in us have power over them. So if you are visited or encounter an evil spirit tell it to go.
The immortality of the soul, a lie first told by Satan in the Garden is one of two identifying marks of a false religion.
This was one of the reasons why I left the SDA church.
Even during the 14 years I was an SDA, I could not bring myself to accept their state of the dead doctrine.
I believe when you die in Y'shua, your soul goes to be with Him and awaits His return when He will reuinte it with a resurrected, glofied body.
Y'shua's death on the Cross and Resurrection RESTORED that which Adam lost. When we accept Y'shua as Messiah and Saviour, something happens to our soul which makes it IMMORTAL. It is not inherently immortal but immortal ONLY because of Y'shua.
And there is so much in the B'rit Hadeshah (New Testament) to back this up.
Y'shua said those who believe in Him will NEVER die.
Y'shua told the thief on the cross next to Him that accepted Him, "Today you will be with me in Paradise".
Sha'ul made the statement, "Absent from the boy and present with Christ".
Y'shua GAVE us immoratality of our souls by His death on the Cross and Resurrection.
I cannot accept or agree with the SDA state of the dead doctrine and never could even when I was an SDA.
Perhaps I should have been vocal about it early on and gotten myself disfellowhipped rather than spending 14 miserable years in the SDA church?
Shalom,
Lebesgue
And Eila, if you had a dead child, and suddenly that child was standing in front of you with a message they said was from Jesus....do you think it'd be difficult to tell them to go and never come back? That's how satan works and we already know he'll impersonate, but how brilliant would it be to impersonate someone that we loved very much?
I would first wonder why Jesus would relay a message through a spirit of a dead child when the Holy Spirit lives in me. Also, I don't believe the spirit of a dead child would appear to give me a message anyway because Ecclesiastes contextually says that the dead do not know anything of things on this earth.
We are to test the spirits. 1 John 4 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." The Bible says that even if an angel from heaven comes to you and relates information to you if it does not agree with the Gospel - don't listen to it.
So should I run from a spirit? No. Jesus never did and the apostles didn't. To me running indicates that the evil spirit is more powerful than God who lives in you.
The immortality of the soul, a lie first told by Satan in the Garden is one of two identifying marks of a false religion.
Eila said:It is interesting that you say that.
See Satan's statement
Genesis 3 " 4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman."
See God's statement:
Genesis 2 "but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."
SDA theology doesn't allow for spiritual death which would make Satan's statement true and God's statement false. God said they would die the day they ate the fruit and Satan said they wouldn't. According to SDA theology they didn't die the day they ate the fruit, but nearly 1000 years later.
"says that the dead do not know anything of things on this earth". On this earth, or do not know ANYTHING?"
Have you read some of the accounts of Mary appearing to people and giving them messages from Jesus? Do you believe that it really is her? Do you think these people are lying or that they really did see SOMETHING?
Spirits of a living human being (or their written words), otherwise we can't test them if we're asking them to go away.
I'll tell them to go away as they're looking at my backside running. Fair enough? I know they're not more powerful than God Eila, but I also know they're not FROM God either.
And it's these same spiritually dead people that will rise FIRST to meet Jesus in the sky, right? Isn't that what you've told me in the past?
What theology is that?
If you look at the verse in Eccl 9 in isolation you would say "anything", but if you look at the verse it context it is talking about things that happen under the sun.
"5For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten. 6Indeed their love, their hate and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun."
They will not have a share of what happens under the sun so why would they appear to me who lives under the sun?
Eila said:No, I haven't read much about accounts of Mary appearing and giving messages. I don't believe it is her because of what Ecclesiastes 9 says. I would assume these people did see something.
Eila said:Doesn't SDA theology say spirit equals breath or are you giving a different meaning here?
Eila said:I think we are looking at this from very different perspectives. That instance may work if you encounter a spirit appearing before you in your driveway, but if someone is possessed by a spirit they will need you to minister to them when the evil spirit leaves.
Spiritually dead people would NOT meet Jesus in the sky because those who reside in death are lost.
The dead cannot praise God either though Eila. Can you imagine being in heaven and not being able to praise your God?
I think they saw something too (at least some of them), but for them to even LISTEN to the message is not what you categorized as testing the spirits. You can definitely test the spirit of a LIVING HUMAN BEING.
Do you think an evil spirit could impersonate a dead person? Appear to you as someone you love to deceive you in some way?
In THAT instance, would you witness to them? Or would you know that they are dead and you should not talk to them at all?
Eila said:SDA theology doesn't allow for spiritual death which would make Satan's statement true and God's statement false. God said they would die the day they ate the fruit and Satan said they wouldn't. According to SDA theology they didn't die the day they ate the fruit, but nearly 1000 years later.
Okay, so who are the "dead in Christ" that rise first to meet Him in the air?
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