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Are The Ten Commandments still an issue for our Salvation?

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JTKIRK

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I ask this question of all,
"Are The Ten Commandments, still an issue for our Salvation?"

I would like to know what you think and why.
What Biblical refrences you use, to justify your answers.
What your particular denomination or pastor etc, teach.
If you think, some or all have been changed, please explain which ones or how etc.

Looking Forward to the responses. JTK

Do we not live by the ethics and morals, that are written in the Bible?
 
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BigBadWlf

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If we live under a new covanant then no, the fall into the old law and were suplemented by the comandment of Jesus

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” John 13:34


“Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” Romans 13:8-10
 
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LittleNipper

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I ask this question of all,
"Are The Ten Commandments, still an issue for our Salvation?"

I would like to know what you think and why.
What Biblical refrences you use, to justify your answers.
What your particular denomination or pastor etc, teach.
If you think, some or all have been changed, please explain which ones or how etc.

Looking Forward to the responses. JTK

Do we not live by the ethics and morals, that are written in the Bible?

The 10 Commandments were never an issue for anyone's Salvation. They exist as an illustration of our fallen nature. They point to the need of a SAVIOR. If one tries to apply the Commandments to one's behavior, one will likely not have as many temporal problems where if they are not applied at all, but that will not save an individual because they cannot be kept perfectly. That is the Fundamentalist, Evangelical, Bible Believing Christian view.
 
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b&wpac4

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The 10 Commandments were never an issue for anyone's Salvation. They exist as an illustration of our fallen nature. They point to the need of a SAVIOR. If one tries to apply the Commandments to one's behavior, one will likely not have as many temporal problems where if they are not applied at all, but that will not save an individual because they cannot be kept perfectly. That is the Fundamentalist, Evangelical, Bible Believing Christian view.

The Jews who received the Ten Commandments did not believe they needed a savior in the way you mean it.
 
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KCKID

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They never were an issue for Salvation.:)

Then again ...there is no way that one can show love to God without their holding to the first 4 commands. And there is no way that one can show love to their neighbor without their holding to commandments 5-10.

Correct or not?

So, if one 'rejects' the Ten Commandments do they therefore not fulfill the requirements of loving God and neighbor and are therefore 'lost'?
 
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JTKIRK

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They never were an issue for Salvation.:)

I have yet to read in any Bible, Jesus saying that, when I die Gods commands are abolished. They are still standing and still make up the Laws we follow in Western society. Thou shall not kill, steal etc.

As a side bar KC had a young Muslim renting a room from him for 4 years and we both got to know him. He told us that for a Muslim to obtain heaven (SALVATION), they must follow Gods commandments and do good works. (No 'Once saved always saved' stuff). Also on the day of judgment that, Jesus Christ (who they think of like a prophet like Mohammad) will be sitting next to God as we all get Judged. (By the way Mohammad would not be there)!!!!!
 
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Zaac

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I have yet to read in any Bible, Jesus saying that, when I die Gods commands are abolished. They are still standing and still make up the Laws we follow in Western society. Thou shall not kill, steal etc.

No one said they were abolished. But they have nothing to do with anyone being saved.

As a side bar KC had a young Muslim renting a room from him for 4 years and we both got to know him. He told us that for a Muslim to obtain heaven (SALVATION), they must follow Gods commandments and do good works.

Muslims serve a false god that is not God. Just as does every false WAY, there is a belief that man posesses the power to do enough good to save himself.

But GOD's word says in Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

Much like satan, man wants to be God. He wants to believe that everything centers around him, and that he is capable of saving himself.

How does a sinful man get rid of his sin in order to be in the presence of a HOLY God?

That's why we needed God as Savior. we can't do anything to save ourselves.

(No 'Once saved always saved' stuff). Also on the day of judgment that, Jesus Christ (who they think of like a prophet like Mohammad) will be sitting next to God as we all get Judged. (By the way Mohammad would not be there)!!!!![/COLOR]

Islam is filled with false teaching.
 
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Zaac

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Then again ...there is no way that one can show love to God without their holding to the first 4 commands. And there is no way that one can show love to their neighbor without their holding to commandments 5-10.

Correct or not?

The Bible says 3We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

The two greatests commandments encompass obedience to ALL of God's commandments, not just 4.:)

But again, following commandments is not a condition for salvation.



So, if one 'rejects' the Ten Commandments do they therefore not fulfill the requirements of loving God and neighbor and are therefore 'lost'?

Are not ALL of God's commanments equally worthy of being obeyed? So why the focus on the 10? Expressing our love for Him is done in obedience to all of His commands, not just 10.
 
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KCKID

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No one said they were abolished. But they have nothing to do with anyone being saved.

But, if they have nothing to do with salvation and they (the Ten Commandments) are not abolished then what the heck purpose do they serve? In other words, if they are not some requirement for the Christian then they might just as well have been abolished!

Muslims serve a false god that is not God. Just as does every false WAY, there is a belief that man posesses the power to do enough good to save himself.

Um ...how do you KNOW that Muslims serve a false god? They could just as well say - and probably do - that Christians serve a false God. How do we determine whose god is false and whose God is true? PLEASE don't say that the Bible tells us so. We really DO need another source to PROVE that one god is false and another God is not.

But GOD's word says in Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

But, you're using the Bible as a primary source with which to PROVE itself! If you had no Bible, could you PROVE that the God of the Bible is the true God? What you are doing is 'proving' that the God of the Bible is the true God from the Bible itself. Can you not see that FAITH ALONE is what one must have to believe in the biblical God since, otherwise, the biblical God is unprovable ...? If you have faith that the Bible is the word of God then just say this. Otherwise you come across as being arrogant.

Much like satan, man wants to be God. He wants to believe that everything centers around him, and that he is capable of saving himself.

But WHY is it essential that (a) one NEEDS to pick up the Bible to begin with, (b) one is REQUIRED to read the ancient contents from start to finish, (c) one is REQUIRED to believe the ancient contents from start to finish without ANY question of doubt in one's mind ...in order to be saved? In order for one to attain a belief devoid of any doubts whatever one would require MORE than a Vulcan 'mind-meld' from Mr. Spock.

And, as I asked of you on another thread, saved from what?

How does a sinful man get rid of his sin in order to be in the presence of a HOLY God?

Um ...become like you and PC_F?

That's why we needed God as Savior. we can't do anything to save ourselves.

But, I thought Jesus was the Savior? Didn't He come to save us from the wrath of His father, God?

Islam is filled with false teaching.

But, the same can be said of Christianity. That's why we have so many Christian denominations each believing that they alone have the truth! :)
 
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Zaac

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But, if they have nothing to do with salvation and they (the Ten Commandments) are not abolished then what the heck purpose do they serve? In other words, if they are not some requirement for the Christian then they might just as well have been abolished!

The law was given because men asked for laws. The ultimate purpose of the law is to show man that He needs a Savior.

There are 613 commandments in the Torah(first 5 books of the Bible). That's a whole lot more than 10.:) If you sat down in a day and just examined how many times you broke the 10 popular ones, it would probably be too many sins to remember.

A lot of times we break commandments and don't even realize that we are because our flesh is just so used to doing certain things. Our propensity to sin is so great, that nothing short of GOD could save us from all that sin.

That's why God's love and mercy is preached with God's wrath against sin.



Um ...how do you KNOW that Muslims serve a false god? They could just as well say - and probably do - that Christians serve a false God. How do we determine whose god is false and whose God is true?


Their god is dead. Jesus Christ is ALIVE.

PLEASE don't say that the Bible tells us so. We really DO need another source to PROVE that one god is false and another God is not.

If God's word is the Truth, and you're looking for the truth, why would you not want me to tell you what the Bible says?



But, you're using the Bible as a primary source with which to PROVE itself! If you had no Bible, could you PROVE that the God of the Bible is the true God?


The Bible says 18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:18-20

In accordance with God's word, not having a Bible is not an excuse for not acknowledging that He is God. Anyone should be able to look at the things of nature and see His signature and know that He is God.

What you are doing is 'proving' that the God of the Bible is the true God from the Bible itself.

I'm not proving anything. I'm simply saying what He says in His word.


Can you not see that FAITH ALONE is what one must have to believe in the biblical God since, otherwise, the biblical God is unprovable ...?

Have I ever said otherwise?


If you have faith that the Bible is the word of God then just say this.

I've said that repeatedly.;) Yall just seem to comprehend how you want to.


Otherwise you come across as being arrogant.

Gosh. Believe me that I am not surprised that people view presenting Jesus Christ as exclusively God and His word as absolute truth as coming across as arrogant.



But WHY is it essential that (a) one NEEDS to pick up the Bible to begin with, (b) one is REQUIRED to read the ancient contents from start to finish, (c) one is REQUIRED to believe the ancient contents from start to finish without ANY question of doubt in one's mind ...in order to be saved? In order for one to attain a belief devoid of any doubts whatever one would require MORE than a Vulcan 'mind-meld' from Mr. Spock.

The Bible says 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."[e] 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
Romans 10:11-15

The written word of the Living Word that makes men free MUST be heard.

The Bible also says 2He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:2-3

Children have a tendency to accept the Truth because of the one giving them the truth. The older humans get, the more jaded they become to accepting the truth on faith.

To be saved by grace through faith(Ephesians 2:8-9), would it make sense to say that you fully trust the One who is saving you, but you don''t trust His word?

There should be questions about our personal understanding of His word. There should not be questions about it being His word and that word being absolutely true.

When you cross into that territory, it becomes dificult to have a witness for the One you say saved you.

And, as I asked of you on another thread, saved from what?

And as I said in the other thread, see John 3:16.



Um ...become like you and PC_F?

:|



But, I thought Jesus was the Savior? Didn't He come to save us from the wrath of His father, God?

He came to seek and save the lost.



But, the same can be said of Christianity. That's why we have so many Christian denominations each believing that they alone have the truth! :)

True. But those denominational issues don't preach a god other than Jesus Christ as God. Unlike the teachings of false religion, the denominations of Chrisianity don't deny the deity of Christ.

Now there are some preaching a gospel that ain't the gospel ,and they are essentially heretical and basically as false as the false religions of the world.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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The parable of the ten virgins is quite revealing regarding the ten commandments. Although they are broken into two groups of five each group represents a different aspect of all the commandments. The foolish five represent the Law, the wise represents the Spirit. Christ will marry the five who have the Spirit, or principal of the Law, not the letter of the Law. Same Law, different applications. Check this out:

Ephesians 4:28
Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

Here is demonstrated the transition from letter to spirit, or the fulfilled intent of the law. Notice that the thief first refrains (repents) from theft, then works productively and legally, finally fulfilling the spiritual intent of the law by sharing his production with those in need.

This fulfilling principle can be applied to all the written commandments that on their face merely enjoin one to refrain from evil while not requiring that anything helpful be attached to it. Simply adhering to the law per se would be like refraining from pouring water on a drowning man. You are neither hurting or helping the person. What profit is there in that?

God expects that, eventually, his people will understand that merely keeping the letter of the law, while doing no one harm, does little good if left at that. It is in the doing of good that the spirit of the law is fulfilled.

And because of this the commandments have a great deal to do with our salvation.

owg
 
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Zaac

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And because of this the commandments have a great deal to do with our salvation.

owg

Post salvation-yes. Pre-salvation-no.

Obedience to God's command is fruit that one has been transformed into a new creation and is indwelled by the Holy Spirit.

But as the Pharisees and Saul demonstrated, knowing and attempting to keep the law by our own power cannot save us.
 
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radlad72

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Um ...how do you KNOW that Muslims serve a false god? They could just as well say - and probably do - that Christians serve a false God. How do we determine whose god is false and whose God is true? PLEASE don't say that the Bible tells us so. We really DO need another source to PROVE that one god is false and another God is not.

Come on KC, what you are espousing comes from man. Belief in God comes from faith. It is impossible to 'prove' something to someone who doesn't want to listen to another's point of view. Does everything need to be proven extra-biblically? Do you not know of the Bible's historically accurate writings? If the history in the Bible is true, then why can't people believe other parts without needing 'proof' outside it?



But, you're using the Bible as a primary source with which to PROVE itself! If you had no Bible, could you PROVE that the God of the Bible is the true God? What you are doing is 'proving' that the God of the Bible is the true God from the Bible itself. Can you not see that FAITH ALONE is what one must have to believe in the biblical God since, otherwise, the biblical God is unprovable ...? If you have faith that the Bible is the word of God then just say this. Otherwise you come across as being arrogant.

Once again, it is impossible to 'prove' beyond a doubt that God exists without using The Word - His Word. Similarly, it is also impossible to prove, outside of inventing a time-travelling device, the beginnings of the universe or life on Earth. Thus we may as well throw out all our evolution, abiogenesis and cosmogeny beliefs/faith as well because it can't be proven either. This argument holds about as much water as a rusty sieve.



But WHY is it essential that (a) one NEEDS to pick up the Bible to begin with, (b) one is REQUIRED to read the ancient contents from start to finish, (c) one is REQUIRED to believe the ancient contents from start to finish without ANY question of doubt in one's mind ...in order to be saved? In order for one to attain a belief devoid of any doubts whatever one would require MORE than a Vulcan 'mind-meld' from Mr. Spock.

It is not a requirement. It happens when one gives their heart to Jesus. They want to know more about this Diety who deigned to descend to this cesspool of a planet and die for people who really don't deserve it so that they can, if they believe in Jesus and Him crucified, have eternal life. That bit comes first. The reading and studying generally comes later (though probably not by much).

And, as I asked of you on another thread, saved from what?



But, I thought Jesus was the Savior? Didn't He come to save us from the wrath of His father, God?

No, He cam to save us from the rightful judgement of His 'Father', God. Without Jesus, we would be between a rock and a hard place because we would die without any hope. God's book tells us that sinning (transgressing the Law - ie The Ten Commandments written on hearts and minds) should by all rights lead to death. He and the other two members of the Godhead came up with the plan. They have this family relationship in Heaven even though none of the Godhead are created. Can you even begin to fathom what God the Father was going through when one third of the eternal Godhead was dying, in human form, on a cruel instrument of torure here on this Earht? I really don't think so. So before you start waffling on about how bad YHWH (Yahweh) is, maybe you should think about the sacrifice He decided on all those years ago. To think that people attribute human thoughts to God is amusing in the least and very, very sad at the worst.

I hope this helps. Though I hold out little hope at least at this juncture.
 
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JTKIRK

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I hope this helps. Though I hold out little hope at least at this juncture.

I agree rad, KC has lost sight of the forest because of the trees. He know the truth and the answers but continues to try and escape it. Why??? I think is is two-fold
Too much listening to what others think and say on this forum and not just putting some faith in God and the other starts with a capital A.
 
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Beanieboy

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I have yet to read in any Bible, Jesus saying that, when I die Gods commands are abolished. They are still standing and still make up the Laws we follow in Western society. Thou shall not kill, steal etc.

As a side bar KC had a young Muslim renting a room from him for 4 years and we both got to know him. He told us that for a Muslim to obtain heaven (SALVATION), they must follow Gods commandments and do good works. (No 'Once saved always saved' stuff). Also on the day of judgment that, Jesus Christ (who they think of like a prophet like Mohammad) will be sitting next to God as we all get Judged. (By the way Mohammad would not be there)!!!!!

I see it like this:
Sometimes I do some things that anger or bother my partner, like showing up 15 minutes late when he asked me to get their early for a movie to get tickets and get our seats.

However, he after some understandable time of being angry, he forgives me.

I don't think, "meh, he forgives me, so I'll just show up whenever I feel like it", because that wouldn't be loving him, but not loving him by taking advantage of his forgiving nature. And he probably would be far less forgiving if I knew it bothered him, and did it anyway.

The same is true with God, in my opinion.
One can't live their whole life knowingly and purposefully not loving their neighbor, and shrug and say, Well, I'm not perfect, just forgiven. Jesus is my Saviour, so I get into heaven no matter what I do.

It doesn't work that way.
 
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KCKID

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The Jews were waiting for a Messiah King that would lead their people. They were not waiting for a perfect sacrifice at all. They believed, and still do, that theirs was not the only path to God.

I, JTKIRK was going to make a post using KCKID’s Computer, as my computer is not working, but have relised that any posts made using this computer would of appeared under the screen name of KCKID. I apoligise for any confusion. JTKIRK.
 
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allhart

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The Jews were waiting for a Messiah King that would lead their people. They were not waiting for a perfect sacrifice at all. They believed, and still do, that theirs was not the only path to God.
Read Isaiah 53 in which is B.C. " before Christ" Then read the new testament in which A.D.is Anno Domini ( from the Latin) or the year of our Lord. Not after[Jesus] death. I take it you are Jewish? and if so God bless you and your people, but Read for yourself with out any presuppositions.Please:amen:
 
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