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You may want to review this:
We Need to Stop Saying That There Are 33,000 Protestant Denominations
I would think you would agree that our actions show what we believe. Even in polls. Meaning even having 10,000 churches does not mean disunity.
Evangelicals are actually more unified than Catholics are on several issues.
http://www.peacebyjesus.com/RC-Stats_vs._Evang.html#THEOLOGICAL
I think it would be enormously incorrect to pretend that all Catholics believe every dogma of the RCC. I grew up in the RCC; I've seen it first hand. Or are we going to pretend Catholics don't disagree on, for example, the subject of birth control?
you said.The purpose of preaching and teaching is to apply what the Scriptures teach to all areas of life..
So teaching is a gift that is very useful and even needful for the church.
..teachers do not add anything to Scripture. In teaching, they do not go beyond what the Scriptures teach.
That would make the purpose of your preaching and teaching, as described above, superfluous and unnecessary...the Scriptures are able, all on their own, to tell a person all they need to know in order to be saved and to live a life pleasing to God.
preaching/teaching "that is" scriptures?We have preaching and teaching, i,e. we have the scriptures
That isn’t the issue. They are required to submit to the Church’s teachings. Those who don’t are rebelling, which everyone would acknowledge to be true. The fact that some choose to disobey hardly changes what the Church has dogmatically defined.
Meanwhile, Protestants can have entirely different notions of theology, Christology and so forth. That’s a completely different order of disagreement than some Catholic having his own ideas about birth control.
I have learned that the way translators of koine Greek learned that baptize meant "fully wet" was from an ancient recipe for pickles. The recipe described both blanching the cucumbers (quick dip) in boiling water as a first step and then steeping (long immersion) in salt water as a subsequent step. The term used for steeping was baptizo.
Whose idea of tradition was acquinas? Are you saying the catholic church?
I don't follow?
Our idea of tradition is such as irenaus, ignatius, justin martyr and so on,
Looking at what those who taught the apostles believed. Then looking at the heresies outed in councils.
Acquinas added some deeper analysis in theology and philosophy, on which some differ such as the molinist vs thomist understanding of predestination. But he was not adding basic tradition when he did. And the church accepts that to differ on those interpretations is not fundamental, so you can choose either.
Catholics stand for what is in the catechism.
So I dont follow you on that either.
If individuals disagree, they are not speaking for catholicism
The core beliefs have been there since the earliest days.
Like..the eucharist of real presence, valid only if performed in succession.
Like intercession of saints and so on.
Indeed the moral teachings have not changed, such as prolife. The catholic church was rescuing babies left to die outside city walls well over 1500 years ago, And did not yield with the populist winds.
You have hit on the key question.
Where is authority to decide on disputes?
It existed in the OT church too - see Jesus speaking of moses seat
What does "Bind and loose" and the "office of keys" actually mean, or the "Pillar of truth" "stay true to tradition"... mean if not church authority?
I meant that the scriptures themselves teach us. They are the teaching of the Lord and His apostles. So when we study them we are being taught by the Lord and His apostles, themselves
That's not what you said before, but OK, this I agree with, as far as it goes.I meant that the scriptures themselves teach us. They are the teaching of the Lord and His apostles. So when we study them we are being taught by the Lord and His apostles, themselves
If it was sufficiently clear: Then Why do all protestant groups disagree and are poles apart even on the the very essentials?
Take baptism. The method, applicability, necessity, formula and efficacy are all disputed - yet this is the entry point to salvation. Do you really think Jesus would lead most of his followers astray?
Joe Biden didn't get that memo.Catholics accept the need for tradition and authority to understand scripture, indeed to decide what scripture is, which was the product of church authority.
Nancy Pelosi totally rejects this yet she gets communion from her priest and bishop.That doctine is handed in a catechism as document of tradition and authority.
And far from "disagreeing" on it, you are not a catholic if you do not accept the catechism.
When some say they disagree, they are not catholic when they say that.
Not to mention 5 of 7 churches of varying error in Revelation 2-3.This assumes a certain goal of sufficiency. Are the Scriptures alone sufficient to end all disagreements, put away all division among Christians, end all factionalism, destroy denominationalism, and unite all churches under one visible entity? No. This is not what Sola Scriptura claims that the Scriptures are sufficient to do.
Neither are the Scriptures sufficient to usher in a New Heavens and a New Earth.
But the Scriptures are sufficient to save people and to teach them the will of God. Denominationalism is inevitable. A necessary evil that is a part of living in a fallen world. It existed even within the New Testament era. Just look at 1 Corinthians 1.
That's not what you said before, but OK, this I agree with, as far as it goes.
However, it doesn't answer my question; if what ToL said is true, what is the purpose of preaching/teaching?
Why is the Great Commission not, "Go hand out copies of the scripture.."
Did Phillip err when he taught the Eunuch? Shouldn't he have just said, "..the Scriptures are able, all on their own, to tell a person all they need to know in order to be saved and to live a life pleasing to God..."
Whoa back up the truck (beep, beep, beep). Noticed you slipped in "Christology." No, Protestants are Christians and Christians do not deny the deity of Jesus Christ. Please stop having Christians take responsibility for organizations which deny the deity of our Christ.Meanwhile, Protestants can have entirely different notions of theology, Christology and so forth.
Must not be an article of faith then. Not to mention there are what, 4, Catholic faith group forums here. Why not just one?And right now on the OBOB subforum there is a Catholic poster denying the exclusivity of salvation through Jesus Christ.
Do "good" atheists go to heaven?
I'm not allowed to debate there.There are a lot of unknowns in that discussion. To address it here risks derailing the discussion. Suffice it to say, there are circumstances where that member could be right.
I do find it a bit puzzling that one comment is seemingly the only problem you had with that discussion though.
Given those numbers that puts roughly 70% of Catholics not onboard with their own catechism.Not on that thread. But in my search around the internet I found a study that had some interesting findings.
Key findings about American Catholics
Yeah, when I was growing up in the RCC is wasn't uncommon at all for someone to say they didn't believe this or didn't believe that. To be honest, it was probably more the norm than the exception.Given those numbers that puts roughly 70% of Catholics not onboard with their own catechism.
So we have to be boiled?I have learned that the way translators of koine Greek learned that baptize meant "fully wet" was from an ancient recipe for pickles. The recipe described both blanching the cucumbers (quick dip) in boiling water as a first step and then steeping (long immersion) in salt water as a subsequent step. The term used for steeping was baptizo.
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