Are the original Ten Commandments in Heaven?

[reddogs]

We read in Revelation that John saw the Testimony in the Temple of Heaven.
In Revelation 11:19 we read:

"And the temple of God was OPENED IN HEAVEN, and there was seen in his temple the ARK OF HIS TESTAMENT." (Revelation 11:19)

Now let's compare Revelation 11:19 with 15:5:

"And after that I looked, and, behold, the TEMPLE of the TABERNACLE of the TESTIMONY in heaven was opened." (Revelation 15:5)

Now let's decipher what this "testimony" in heaven actually is. The Lord told Moses the following concerning the Two Tables of Stone:

"And thou shalt put into the ARK the TESTIMONY which I shall give thee." (Exodus 25:16)

"And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and IN THE ARK THOU SHALT PUT THE TESTIMONY that I shall give thee ." (Exodus 25:21)

As we can see, the Tables of Stone were called the "testimony". Further texts to collaborate this is established in the following:

"And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, TWO TABLES OF TESTIMONY, tables of stone, written with the finger of God." (Exodus 31:18 )

"And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the TWO TABLES OF THE TESTIMONY were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written." (Exodus 32:15)

"And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the TWO TABLES OF TESTIMONY in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him." (Exodus 34:29)

So we see that the Ten Commandments given to Moses were an exact transcript of the original testimony in heaven. This fact is further validated by the following point:

"Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel10) And they saw the God of Israel: and there was UNDER HIS FEET WERE A PAVED WORK OF SAPPHIRE STONE, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.(11) And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.(12) And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I WILL GIVE THE TABLES OF STONE [The original Hebrew can also be translated "OF the stone"],and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them." (Exodus 24:9-12)
Now we know Moses made the earthly tabernacle after the one in heaven which he was shown.
"According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it." (Exodus 25:9)

"And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount." (Exodus 25:40)

So it appears scripture has given us enough information to see that the Tables given to Moses were a transcript of the ones in heaven.

 

[taikachanz]

So it appears scripture has given us enough information to see that the Tables given to Moses were a transcript of the ones in heaven.

Let’s consider this Red.

In heaven the written law was not necessary, it was written on the hearts of the angels; that is until Lucifer did his thing. Anyway, it is how God wants it to be for us, as can be seen in the promise of the New Covenant.

Now that being the case a written law in heaven was not necessary. Nor was it necessary for the first few centuries after the fall because men knew what those laws were, though all but eight in the end followed them so God flooded the world and man started over again with Noah and his family. But as Satan is persistent and man is dumb the laws were remembered by but a few and of these few Abram was chosen to father a nation where these laws would become a foundation on which they would grow. But, unfortunately, they too forgot them while in bondage in Egypt. So it was necessary for God to “codify”.

So where did these laws, “testimonies” come from which now reside in heaven. Mind you this is not my theory but comes from others who have done some research in the matter so I am only repeating what they, and they are SDA, have surmised, which does make sense.

When we look at the text that describes Moses’ meeting with God, God is standing on a paved walkway of sapphire paving stones. It is from these stones that God first cuts out the tables of stone and write the laws in them. It is these very stones that Moses breaks in his anger when he returns to the Israelite camp to find them in their debauchery breaking the very laws they agreed to keep just 40 days before. So God commands Moses to cut out his own stones the second time and rewrites in these. Ok, what happened to the original sapphire tables of stone? It is surmised that God took these tables, repaired them and placed them in the Heavenly Sanctuary. It is these testimonies that Paul observed in his vision.

Interesting theory wouldn’t you say?

 

[Castaway57]

Let’s consider this Red.

In heaven the written law was not necessary, it was written on the hearts of the angels; that is until Lucifer did his thing. Anyway, it is how God wants it to be for us, as can be seen in the promise of the New Covenant.

What Bible reference do you have for saying this? I would think that whether the law was written on someone's heart, or on a table of stone that in both cases it must be necessary or it just would not even be mentioned to us as being there in the first place.

19. The Law of God
The great principles of God's law are embodied in the Ten Commandments and exemplified in the life of Christ. They express God's love, will, and purposes concerning human conduct and relationships and are binding upon all people in every age. These precepts are the basis of God's covenant with His people and the standard in God's judgment. Through the agency of the Holy Spirit they point out sin and awaken a sense of need for a Saviour. Salvation is all of grace and not of works, but its fruitage is obedience to the Commandments. This obedience develops Christian character and results in a sense of well-being. It is an evidence of our love for the Lord and our concern for our fellow men. The obedience of faith demonstrates the power of Christ to transform lives, and therefore strengthens Christian witness.

(Ex. 20:1-17; Ps. 40:7, 8; Matt. 22:36-40; Deut. 28:1-14; Matt. 5:17-20; Heb. 8:8-10; John 15:7-10; Eph. 2:8-10; 1 John 5:3; Rom. 8:3, 4; Ps. 19:7-14.)

 

[JohnMarsten]

the commandments were specifically designed for the israelites as they were the ones rescued out of egypt...

 

[spiritandtruth2]

the commandments were specifically designed for the israelites as they were the ones rescued out of egypt...

At last, a correct application of who the Mosaic Law was given to as a tutor to Jesus Christ who was to fulfill the law.

 

[Castaway57]

the commandments were specifically designed for the israelites as they were the ones rescued out of egypt...

Hmmm, so how does it follow that because the Bible shows an incident where the ten commandments were "given" to Moses or the Israelites that that is the only time they were ever mentioned to any one anywhere? It seems a bit strange for God to just quickly cook up that law only for the israelites, and preclude any one anywhere from all time from needing it too. I don't know of any Bible verse which would support your answer. What is so special about all others that they dont need it? Why are you saying the Israelites were so inferior that they needed the ten commandments, but we don't? We are not any better than they are, history sure shows that. And, if the ten commandment law was not previously in heaven, Jesus would not have had to come down and give His life to uphold something "only for the Israelites." It was because they obeyed that law that the angels were able to stay in heaven; and because he disobeyed that law, that Satan and his followers could not stay there.

 

[maco]

the commandments were specifically designed for the israelites as they were the ones rescued out of egypt...

It's statements like this that keep people in darkness.

The Law was not given to Israel, it was given through Israel.

Israel was God's chosen people to represent God to the world. When Israel was delivered out of Egypt and stood at the base of Mt.Sinai there was a great multitude of people consisting of both Jews and non-Jews. The Law was given to all people. One Law for all people, period.

Exodus 12:49 One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you.”

Numbers 15:16 One law and one custom shall be for you and for the stranger who dwells with you.’”

Numbers 15:29 You shall have one law for him who sins unintentionally, for him who is native-born among the children of Israel and for the stranger who dwells among them.

The ways of God are for all people.

Isaiah 56:1-7 This is what the Lord says: “Be just and fair to all. Do what is right and good, for I am coming soon to rescue you and to display my righteousness among you. Blessed are all those who are careful to do this. Blessed are those who honor my Sabbath days of rest and keep themselves from doing wrong. “Don’t let foreigners who commit themselves to the Lord say, ‘The Lord will never let me be part of his people.’ And don’t let the eunuchs say, ‘I’m a dried-up tree with no children and no future.’ For this is what the Lord says: I will bless those eunuchs who keep my Sabbath days holy and who choose to do what pleases me and commit their lives to me. I will give them—within the walls of my house—a memorial and a name far greater than sons and daughters could give. For the name I give them is an everlasting one. It will never disappear! “I will also bless the foreigners who commit themselves to the Lord,who serve him and love his name, who worship him and do not desecrate the Sabbath day of rest, and who hold fast to my covenant. I will bring them to my holy mountain of Jerusalem and will fill them with joy in my house of prayer. I will accept their burnt offerings and sacrifices, because my Temple will be called a house of prayer for all nations.

Adultery, murder and stealing is just as much a sin to a Jew as it is to a Gentile. This goes for all the commandments given at Sinai. One Law for all...

 

[Castaway57]

It's statements like this that keep people in darkness.

The Law was not given to Israel, it was given through Israel.

Israel was God's chosen people to represent God to the world. When Israel was delivered out of Egypt and stood at the base of Mt.Sinai there was a great multitude of people consisting of both Jews and non-Jews. The Law was given to all people. One Law for all people, period.

Agreed

 

[JohnMarsten]

Hmmm, so how does it follow that because the Bible shows an incident where the ten commandments were "given" to Moses or the Israelites that that is the only time they were ever mentioned to any one anywhere? It seems a bit strange for God to just quickly cook up that law only for the israelites, and preclude any one anywhere from all time from needing it too. I don't know of any Bible verse which would support your answer. What is so special about all others that they dont need it? Why are you saying the Israelites were so inferior that they needed the ten commandments, but we don't? We are not any better than they are, history sure shows that. And, if the ten commandment law was not previously in heaven, Jesus would not have had to come down and give His life to uphold something "only for the Israelites." It was because they obeyed that law that the angels were able to stay in heaven; and because he disobeyed that law, that Satan and his followers could not stay there.

So what about Egypt? Is it a universal concept? or is it a specific country, a specific situation that only the israelites were involved in? Who else was rescued by God out of Egypt? unless this is a universal concept I can only see the israelites fitting the context. So the Law was given in a specific context,

 

[JohnMarsten]

It's statements like this that keep people in darkness.

The Law was not given to Israel, it was given through Israel.

Israel was God's chosen people to represent God to the world. When Israel was delivered out of Egypt and stood at the base of Mt.Sinai there was a great multitude of people consisting of both Jews and non-Jews. The Law was given to all people. One Law for all people, period.

Exodus 12:49 One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you.”

Numbers 15:16 One law and one custom shall be for you and for the stranger who dwells with you.’”

Numbers 15:29 You shall have one law for him who sins unintentionally, for him who is native-born among the children of Israel and for the stranger who dwells among them.

The ways of God are for all people.

Isaiah 56:1-7 This is what the Lord says: “Be just and fair to all. Do what is right and good, for I am coming soon to rescue you and to display my righteousness among you. Blessed are all those who are careful to do this. Blessed are those who honor my Sabbath days of rest and keep themselves from doing wrong. “Don’t let foreigners who commit themselves to the Lord say, ‘The Lord will never let me be part of his people.’ And don’t let the eunuchs say, ‘I’m a dried-up tree with no children and no future.’ For this is what the Lord says: I will bless those eunuchs who keep my Sabbath days holy and who choose to do what pleases me and commit their lives to me. I will give them—within the walls of my house—a memorial and a name far greater than sons and daughters could give. For the name I give them is an everlasting one. It will never disappear! “I will also bless the foreigners who commit themselves to the Lord,who serve him and love his name, who worship him and do not desecrate the Sabbath day of rest, and who hold fast to my covenant. I will bring them to my holy mountain of Jerusalem and will fill them with joy in my house of prayer. I will accept their burnt offerings and sacrifices, because my Temple will be called a house of prayer for all nations.

Adultery, murder and stealing is just as much a sin to a Jew as it is to a Gentile. This goes for all the commandments given at Sinai. One Law for all...

What I mean is, that if the Law as given to Moses existed long before, then how does Egypt fit into this context? and dont come up with this darkness thing cause you might end up being in darkness yourself without even knowing...

 

[Castaway57]

So what about Egypt? Is it a universal concept? or is it a specific country, a specific situation that only the israelites were involved in? Who else was rescued by God out of Egypt? unless this is a universal concept I can only see the israelites fitting the context. So the Law was given in a specific context,

If you will recall; Egypt rejected God, they wanted nothing to do with Him

 

[taikachanz]

(From Castaway57) What Bible reference do you have for saying this? I would think that whether the law was written on someone's heart, or on a table of stone that in both cases it must be necessary or it just would not even be mentioned to us as being there in the first place.

Perhaps I read it in the Great Controversy Series, but I know that this is what I have learned from our organization. Or do you also disagree with what I wrote? I understand where the Laws came from and for whom they were written. The point was, in my statement, that the Laws were from the beginning and are immutable.

(From JohnMarsten) What I mean is, that if the Law as given to Moses existed long before, then how does Egypt fit into this context? and dont come up with this darkness thing cause you might end up being in darkness yourself without even knowing...

Think about it John. The ten commandments, under the new covenant, could now read. (Jesus speaking) “I am the Lord thy God, I have brought out of Sin, out of the land of bondage… ect.” In the old testament Egypt was the Land of Bondage for the Jews, Sin is the Land of Bondage for all humanity.

As to the Law being in existence before they were written down or codified in stone we see this numerous times before the Israelites were even a nation, remembering what Paul says, “Where there is no law there is no sin for sin is the transgression of the law.”

Cain kills Able and becomes an outcast.

All the world, save Noah and his family, were destroyed because all the world was lawless (full of sin)

Joseph refused to lay with his master’s wife “how can I sin against my master and God.”

Also consider why it was that Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels were cast out of heaven, it was due to rebelliousness, “rebellion is like unto sorcery (witchcraft).

Satan broke many commandments before the earth was created and the rest after.

The law existed way before they were given to the Israelites.

 

[maco]

What I mean is, that if the Law as given to Moses existed long before, then how does Egypt fit into this context? and dont come up with this darkness thing cause you might end up being in darkness yourself without even knowing...

Writing the Ten Commandments in stone is not what made them sinful, they are sinful because they hurt relationships and destroy God's creation. Cain was guilty of the sin of murder long before Sinai. All those people who lived in Egypt for hundreds of years were heavily influenced by pagan gods and practices. God used the Law on stone to govern a lost and wayward people in the ways of life. It's one law and one way for all mankind.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Writing the Ten Commandments in stone is not what made them sinful, they are sinful because they hurt relationships and destroy God's creation. Cain was guilty of the sin of murder long before Sinai. All those people who lived in Egypt for hundreds of years were heavily influenced by pagan gods and practices. God used the Law on stone to govern a lost and wayward people in the ways of life. It's one law and one way for all mankind.

right but we cannot assume that the commandments existed in the same version before egypt, or can we?

 

[maco]

right but we cannot assume that the commandments existed in the same version before egypt, or can we?

The Ten Commandments teach us how to love God and love others in a godly way. The Ten Commandments should have been followed prior to Sinai but they weren't thus the need for the stone.

Galatians 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

The words, "Because of transgressions" means they were not living by godly love.

 

[mmksparbud]

Gen 4:7 "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door..."--So God said to Cain when God refused Cain's offering, and accepted Abel's---"where there is no law, there is no sin"---guess there must have been a law,or GOD would not have said, sin lieth at the door. As for the law being different before Egypt, all of Adam And Eve's children inherited a sinful nature from their fallen state. God does not change. As for Lucifer and the angels, Lucifer would not have become Satan had he not sinned, he was a liar--he didn't lure 1/3 of the angels away from God by telling them how wonderful He was. Since the angels were sexless, a law against adultry might not have been needed, but going against God is adultry, as said many times in the bible. Were they written--don't know, they had pretty fantastic brains and may not have needed them written, however, if Moses is making things on earth in the image of those in heaven, then why would they not have been written there, too? God, knowing the end from the beginning, knew they would be needed and may have had them already written long before Lucifer was created. God did not have to write down, thou shalt not eat of the tree of life, He said it, they understood, that was enough. Sometimes we just plain think things to death and stray from the path with our feeble, human thoughts--maybe that was where the first headache came from???

 

[JohnMarsten]

The Ten Commandments teach us how to love God and love others in a godly way. The Ten Commandments should have been followed prior to Sinai but they weren't thus the need for the stone.

Galatians 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

The words, "Because of transgressions" means they were not living by godly love.

did anyone understand what I was referring to?

 

[Castaway57]

did anyone understand what I was referring to?

I think you were sort of inquiring about the ten commandments, and wondering if they were in written form, or perhaps in oral form during various periods of time in the past? Am I close?

 

[Castaway57]

What I mean is, that if the Law as given to Moses existed long before, then how does Egypt fit into this context? and dont come up with this darkness thing cause you might end up being in darkness yourself without even knowing...

In effect, Egypt fits into this context the same way any other nation does today. The Ten Commandments dont pick out favorite people groups or favorite time frames of history to be applicable.