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So sacraments, as their called, are a salvation issue with you? I see it differently.
You say that one can be saved without being baptized... but there will be consequences if one isn't baptized?
I dont need Letters to see error in Catholicism, all i need is the bible. Looking at all the division in theology, i prefer to keep things simple. Im not a traditionalist because i dont trust tradition, especially Catholic tradition.If that were so, why is there so much doctrinal overlap between the Catholic Church and the Early Church? My sig contains a quote from St. Irenaeus from circa 189 AD that extols the importance of the bishop of Rome.
Friend, there's a lot of pseudo-history floating around Protestant Christian circles. I have my suspicions as to why that is but the main point is that reading the Church Fathers is an eye-opening experience for a lot of people.
Others would have. And who needs the grief, right?
You say that one can be saved without being baptized... but there will be consequences if one isn't baptized?
I believe God chastens His children, the scriptures clearly say this. But i dont think he does that over sacraments. Thats just my faith though.I think it's pretty bad if you can do it, but refuse. I think there will be consequences, hopefully not endangering your salvation, but consequences. I believe all we do, good and bad have consequences both here and in the eternal kingdom to come.
Read the start of the thread, PARTAKE IN COMMUNION AKA LORDS SUPPER.Im sure it wasn't about communion. I cant believe a persons life or soul would hang on communion.
Okay, put that aside for just a moment. Irrespective of the Catholic thing, the Church Fathers, men who were personally trained by apostles and may even have followed Our Lord Himself during His earthly ministry, committed many of their beliefs to writing. Those writings are still illustrative of what they believed.I dont need Letters to see error in Catholicism,
Without tradition, you really have no way of knowing that the compilation you call "the Bible" is made up of sacred scripture.Im not a traditionalist because i dont trust tradition, especially Catholic tradition.
Obvious to whom? It's not obvious to the 1 billion Catholics in the world today. It's not obvious to the 300'ish million Orthodox in the world today. It wasn't obvious to the early Church.
Why didn't he say that then?
Nobody believes that.Argumentum ad populum - which is a logical fallacy.
It wasn't obvious to the people who abandoned Him in St. John 6... a point which nobody in this thread seems willing to discuss.Because, as I pointed out, it was obvious that he was speaking figuratively.
That is basically what you have done when you erect a bloody statue at the front of the building, and dwell on that, forgetting that He actually personified LOVE for mankind and died that death, in a great part, so that we would also remember those He died for... (His 'Body') He doesn't need us to reenact an execution in our minds. He wants us to love one another, and thus...... "remember Him."The Sacrifice that only God could accomplish. An act of Divine Love. Salvation. Compared to a car accident?
Our Lord's ministry was wonderful and probably would've changed the world all by itself.People (C or P) that are hooked up on that may just be missing everything Jesus lived for.
Because He lives, we have Salvation and also live. If He had stayed dead, His death would have meant nothing. It is all "because He lives."Our Lord's ministry was wonderful and probably would've changed the world all by itself.
But the objective reality is that Christianity as a religion hinges upon the crucifixion and death of Our Lord. "By His wounds, we are healed." Not "By His miraculous birth, not "By His life", not "By His earthly ministry", not anything else. By His wounds. Our salvation comes from His sacrifice.
Celebrating our salvation, I think, ought to include some acknowledgement of exactly what that cost Our Lord.
Penalty for the sins of mankind was not paid by His resurrection but by His suffering and death. I think you're getting the cart before the horse.Because He lives, we have Salvation and also live. If He had stayed dead, His death would have meant nothing. It is all "because He lives."
The traditional one?
He said a fair bit more than that.
And taking bread, he gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying: This is my body, which is given for you. Do this for a commemoration of me.
-- St. Luke 22:19 (DRA)
Now, I've noticed that Protestants tend to only remember the last seven words of that passage and think "Golly, I guess that's all there is to it, herp a derp!"
But He said "This is my body". He didn't say "This represents" or "This is comparable to" or "This is a metaphor". He said "This IS my body."
It's not as complicated as you're making it.
Catholics commemorate Our Lord by receiving His Body and Blood. That's the Eucharist.
Protestants just commemorate by drinking grape juice and eating crackers. That's not the Eucharist.
Wow, you really aren't grasping that I'm not talking about that, are you?
That's the lowest hanging fruit so I can see why you keep gravitating toward that.
I doubt that it is. The apostle paul says that with the heart one believes and is saved. You may say that baptism is still needed for salvation, but i ask you, what baptism? The baptism of water or fire? Do you actually believe a person cannot hear the Word, repent, and find salvation by faith in the Lord...without water baptism? Look at the scripture below. Its by belief in the heart that we are saved.W2L, What do you mean with 1 cor 1:17-18?
That Paul wasn't sent to baptize and therefore baptism isn't necessary for salvation?
Good point. Thank you.Read the start of the thread, PARTAKE IN COMMUNION AKA LORDS SUPPER.
I KNEW MOST PEOPLE WHO TAKE COMMUNION AND THEY HAVENT A CLUE WHO JESUS IS
It is because protestants don't believe in transubstantiation and the elements have not been consecrated by an ordained priest so that it miraculously becomes the literal body and blood of Christ.Protestants partake in the lord's supper just as much as any other denomination. I'm not sure your catholic friends got that information.
Without tradition, you really have no way of knowing that the compilation you call "the Bible" is made up of sacred scripture.
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