Are Our Standards Too Low?

[McScribe]

I wonder what people here think about the idea that our standards are actually rather low for marriage? I have a few thoughts here about that:

1. How genuinely humbly do couples pray to God about their marriage--like with all openeness and honesty before God?

2. How much do we respect our spouses? From the little things (please and thank you) to genuinely listening to them and trying to understand them?

3. How truly honest are we with one another?

4. How brave are we? Do we have the courage to say what's true? Do we have the courage to hear things that may be uncomfortable? Do we have the courage to try when it seems emotionally dangerous to do it?

5. How supportive are we of one another? Do we really care when others around us are troubled? Do we care about that man who is overwhelmed, that woman who always brings her kids to church by herself? Do we care about that couple who are struggling to love one another?

 

[Conservativation]

Oh in many ways I think our standards are too high. We confuse standards with expectations and that is a killer

 

[McScribe]

What standards do you think are too high about what I proposed? Do you mean that we shouldn't be striving for honesty, submission to God, courage, supportiveness?

 

[dorig59]

I don't think the standards are too high, I just think that a lot of people don't care about the standards or are unwilling or unable to meet them.

 

[Conservativation]

I didnt mean that THOSE standards are too high. Sorry. But to understand what I do mean, just read through pretty much any marriage forum on any Christian website.

 

[Conservativation]

One other thing is that standardsexpectations change alot, with lifes seasons

 

[McScribe]

Do you mean that there are times when it it unwise to be honest, or humble before God? Times when we shouldn't bother to be respectful or brave? Times when we shouldn't be concerned for the other members of our community?

Sure expectations change. My younger son was once a toddler and I didn't expect that much from him compared with now. Now I expect him to do all these things he didn't do when he was two, or a baby.

- wipe his bum and wash his hands after the washroom
- take his dishes to the sink
- clean up his toys
- try to ask what for he needs or mention what's bugging him with his brother or another kid before he comes to me or my wife
- cooperate in the bath instead of just getting washed
- start learning to do his own seatbelt
- put his own clothes on in the morning

These are just a few examples, but when he was 1 for example it was impossible to expect such a standard. But surely that was the goal--what kind of father would I be if I condoned him never changing?

And yet I did these things with love, and that's part of it too--honesty reocgnizes what people are capable of. And we give kids consequences if they don't cooperate, right?

A spouse though is totally different--here we're talking about a fellow adult, capable of making rational intelligent decisions, capable of talking to God and reading the Bible on their own. I think therefore that the standards I'm holding up are vital.

 

[Conservativation]

Do you mean that there are times when it it unwise to be honest, or humble before God? Times when we shouldn't bother to be respectful or brave? Times when we shouldn't be concerned for the other members of our community?

Sure expectations change. My younger son was once a toddler and I didn't expect that much from him compared with now. Now I expect him to do all these things he didn't do when he was two, or a baby.

- wipe his bum and wash his hands after the washroom
- take his dishes to the sink
- clean up his toys
- try to ask what for he needs or mention what's bugging him with his brother or another kid before he comes to me or my wife
- cooperate in the bath instead of just getting washed
- start learning to do his own seatbelt
- put his own clothes on in the morning

These are just a few examples, but when he was 1 for example it was impossible to expect such a standard. But surely that was the goal--what kind of father would I be if I condoned him never changing?

And yet I did these things with love, and that's part of it too--honesty reocgnizes what people are capable of. And we give kids consequences if they don't cooperate, right?

A spouse though is totally different--here we're talking about a fellow adult, capable of making rational intelligent decisions, capable of talking to God and reading the Bible on their own. I think therefore that the standards I'm holding up are vital.

Nope, not at all. I believe there is NO time for one spouse to while away lots of time comparing the OTHER spouse to these standards.
IOW, these standards are US compared to Gods expectations. We will fall short...every time. That falling short is what we and God are working on in us, its NOT what our spouse needs to come and say "hey, you are failing in this and that". Thats what Im talking about. Those standards as true standards are set in stone. But as EXPECTATIONS I may have of my wife, they are NOT set in stone. I may emphasize one more than another in seasons. Its not my place to try and push her, when she is fully engaged with God doing exactly that herself. I do not have the discernment to know allways where her particular struggle may be at that moment.

 

[chaz345]

If i may rephrase/restate what I beleive Cons is getting at since we've talked about similar in the past.

Those standards, as stated are a good thing for any marriage and a good thing to be striving for. The problem he's talking about is the all too common case where someone spends more time and effort holding their spouse up to those standards than they do holding themself up to them. In fact one could easily make the case that someone who is worried about their spouse's performance as relates to those standards is themself miserably failing at numbers 2, 4 and 5.

 

[McScribe]

That's certainly true, Chaz. I think that above all it needs to be remembered that I'm not holding this up as standards for my wife, for example, but for myself first and foremost. I encourage her to do likewise but my own actions are my responsibility.

 

[mkgal1]

If i may rephrase/restate what I beleive Cons is getting at since we've talked about similar in the past.

Those standards, as stated are a good thing for any marriage and a good thing to be striving for. The problem he's talking about is the all too common case where someone spends more time and effort holding their spouse up to those standards than they do holding themself up to them. In fact one could easily make the case that someone who is worried about their spouse's performance as relates to those standards is themself miserably failing at numbers 2, 4 and 5.

I think that in all this, THE most important thing to remember is that it doesn't matter WHERE the problem is coming from....the problem is there and it is going to destroy the marriage--so it needs to be done away with and quickly. We need to be vigilant to keep our marriages safe from harm...it is much easier to attack issues when they are small as opposed to issues that have grown to monster-size over the years. If a couple can have a united goal to keep the marriage open, honest, loving, and God-centered...without casting blame (or hearing blame)....these standards will be more easily met.

 

[McScribe]

I would agree with this, although the most of the rest of this thread is pretty vague.

You find the OP vague?

 

[chaz345]

I think that in all this, THE most important thing to remember is that it doesn't matter WHERE the problem is coming from....the problem is there and it is going to destroy the marriage--so it needs to be done away with and quickly. We need to be vigilant to keep our marriages safe from harm...it is much easier to attack issues when they are small as opposed to issues that have grown to monster-size over the years. If a couple can have a united goal to keep the marriage open, honest, loving, and God-centered...without casting blame (or hearing blame)....these standards will be more easily met.

It absolutely matters where the problem is coming from if you want to fix the problem. Look at your own situation for example. If the only thing that mattered was addressing the problem, the counsilors who told you to just go along to get along had a valid approach didn't they?

Here's the thing though. In the huge majority of cases the problem is being contributed to by both people so both need to be willing to look at and address their own contribution. It doesn't matter if it's a huge difference like 90/10 either. Because I've seen cases where the person own the 10 and addressing it was what was needed for the other person to finally "get it".

 

[mkgal1]

It absolutely matters where the problem is coming from if you want to fix the problem. Look at your own situation for example. If the only thing that mattered was addressing the problem, the counsilors who told you to just go along to get along had a valid approach didn't they?

Here's the thing though. In the huge majority of cases the problem is being contributed to by both people so both need to be willing to look at and address their own contribution. It doesn't matter if it's a huge difference like 90/10 either. Because I've seen cases where the person own the 10 and addressing it was what was needed for the other person to finally "get it".

Blame should not be the goal, I guess is a better way to phrase what I am trying to express. Blame divides, and that alone is detrimental to a marriage. It seems that once that happens, and if it appears to be something that is leaning towards one spouse....then the other spouse may throw their hands up and say, "Well....that isn't MY fault" and then they feel they have no responsibility to resolve the issue. All marital issues should be taken on and battled against by both spouses as they should be united as one.

 

[Conservativation]

Blame should not be the goal, I guess is a better way to phrase what I am trying to express. Blame divides, and that alone is detrimental to a marriage. It seems that once that happens, and if it appears to be something that is leaning towards one spouse....then the other spouse may throw their hands up and say, "Well....that isn't MY fault" and then they feel they have no responsibility to resolve the issue. All marital issues should be taken on and battled against by both spouses as they should be united as one.

Do you realize that this post is all about blame? Even in the post, while decrying blame you go on to say the reason not to blame is that it makes the OTHER person say its not their fault!
Im not sure if blame is the right word but you do speand a goodly amount of time focused on the other person.

 

[Conservativation]

That's certainly true, Chaz. I think that above all it needs to be remembered that I'm not holding this up as standards for my wife, for example, but for myself first and foremost. I encourage her to do likewise but my own actions are my responsibility.

Thats EXACTLY my point and I fully agree.

 

[mkgal1]

Do you realize that this post is all about blame? Even in the post, while decrying blame you go on to say the reason not to blame is that it makes the OTHER person say its not their fault!
Im not sure if blame is the right word but you do speand a goodly amount of time focused on the other person.

Ummmm...yes, I DO realize that that entire post was about blame, because I was responding to what Chaz said when he said it DOES matter where a problem is coming from. The point I was trying to make was that blame is NOT helpful. It causes a person to become defensive and to lose motivation to work along side the other spouse.

We do need to have the ability to confront issues that affect our marriages, however. What good is it to have standards if we are not going to expect those standards to be upheld? As McScribe said, we need to set those standards for ourselves first and foremost...but, sometimes an issue may take the other spouses effort as well, and THAT is when humility (and sensitivity) needs to be displayed. It all should be approached with a spirit of love and true concern...not an opportunity to show we are "right" or that the other spouse has "failed". Those are attitudes that don't have a place in marriage. If a husband and wife are one....if one spouse is "right" ....than the other is as well. If one spouse has "failed"....then they both have. Does that make any sense?

 

[Conservativation]

You still miss it.
Your sentence:The point I was trying to make was that blame is NOT helpful. It causes a person to become defensive and to lose motivation to work along side the other spouse.
STILL talks about what THE OTHER person is gonna do. You say blame is bad, NOT because its a bad thing for YOU to do...but because it makes the other person (the gulty one in your terms) feel blamed and get defensive.

What about it not being good for YOU to blame the other person because YOU are then casting stones? THATS whats wrong with blame....its bad to be the BLAMER...not the "BLAMEE"

 

[mkgal1]

You still miss it.
Your sentence:The point I was trying to make was that blame is NOT helpful. It causes a person to become defensive and to lose motivation to work along side the other spouse.
STILL talks about what THE OTHER person is gonna do. You say blame is bad, NOT because its a bad thing for YOU to do...but because it makes the other person (the gulty one in your terms) feel blamed and get defensive.

What about it not being good for YOU to blame the other person because YOU are then casting stones? THATS whats wrong with blame....its bad to be the BLAMER...not the "BLAMEE"

Yes, because as I said in the other thread....things only escalate to a conflict when another opposing view is introduced, and that is from the other spouse.

McScribe's list contains this:

4. How brave are we? Do we have the courage to say what's true? Do we have the courage to hear things that may be uncomfortable? Do we have the courage to try when it seems emotionally dangerous to do it?

If people cannot feel "safe" enough to bring up issues for fear of being too judgmental....casting stones when they are not perfect....then sin is going to be allowed to take root. It is a dangerous place to be, but I feel it is the overriding attitude from within the church.

 

[poohgirl]

I wonder what people here think about the idea that our standards are actually rather low for marriage? I have a few thoughts here about that:

1. How genuinely humbly do couples pray to God about their marriage--like with all openeness and honesty before God?

2. How much do we respect our spouses? From the little things (please and thank you) to genuinely listening to them and trying to understand them?

3. How truly honest are we with one another?

4. How brave are we? Do we have the courage to say what's true? Do we have the courage to hear things that may be uncomfortable? Do we have the courage to try when it seems emotionally dangerous to do it?

5. How supportive are we of one another? Do we really care when others around us are troubled? Do we care about that man who is overwhelmed, that woman who always brings her kids to church by herself? Do we care about that couple who are struggling to love one another?

All very good questions you pose.

I don't know if it's a low standards issue or not, but
I do believe some marriages are a low investment by the spouses with an expectation of high returns. The problem is that sometimes people put little into the marriage and yet still want big returns on the small to little of nothing investments they make into the marriage. It often doesn't work out that way and then they aren't happy or satisfied with what there is in the account to withdraw from.

I believe it's important to invest plenty into your marriage, your family and invest in others most importantly invest into your personal relationship with the Lord.

Of course, like others I often fall short myself.