• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Are Mormon's Christian?

MarsHill

Active Member
Nov 25, 2005
150
8
Florida
✟323.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Most threads appear to get off topic. This question will not be answered anytime soon no matter what anyone involved says. There are at least a half dozen similar threads elsewhere on the forums dealing with Mormons and whether or not they are Christians. Those threads are not making any progress either.

I stand by my original position when it comes to most of the views given in this thread. Many of us have differing beliefs when it comes to Jesus. Many are easily offended when their worldview is violated. That's o.k. Debate is necessary many times in order to discover truth. The apostle Paul never seemed to be afraid to speak his mind when he encountered those who were in error concerning Jesus. In fact he was quite bold about it. We cannot ignore the fact that Jesus was quite bold in many instances as well. Attacking a worldview or idea shouldn't be that big of a problem. We should have convictions and not compromise them until they are proven false. Most times when we hear ideas that are in opposition to our own then it becomes personal. It rattles our cage. Sadly, arguing about these things rarely changes anything if our minds are not open. People are more closed minded than not. An honest skeptic may not believe but he or she is open to all possibilities. We do not see many honest skeptics these days.
My feeling is that Mormons along with several other groups hold to a picture of Jesus that may be partially true but not entirely true. If you start off with the wrong concept of Jesus then you end up with the wrong idea of Jesus. Just because you say that you believe in Jesus doesn't tell us the entire story. One must ask, "Which Jesus do you believe in?" I didn't know there was more than one Jesus but when you begin evaluating the beliefs of those who claim to be Christian you start to see several different ideas emerge about who and what Jesus was and is. We cannot discuss the topic at hand because we cannot get past the biggest issue concerning the person we all claim to believe in. Who is this Jesus? What does it mean to believe in Jesus? Those answers also vary from person to person. I do not believe that two opposing answers can be correctat the same time. Either one is right and the rest are wrong. Or we are all wrong and the truth is still out there waiting to be discovered. I believe God is powerful enough to have given us the truth.
You can ask me what kind of car I drive. My response may be a Porsche. But soon you become puzzled because everytime you see me I am driving a Honda. You ask me again, "What kind of car do you drive?" Again I say "A Porsche". Eventually you find out that I never really had a Porsche. I only have a Honda. But in my mind I drive a Porsche. And since I believe it that is all that matters to me. When I sit behind the wheel of the Honda I have re-interpreted it into sitting behind the wheel of a Porsche. The only problem is that no matter how convinced I am that I am driving a Porsche I am still driving a Honda.
This is how I view the way others see Jesus. They say, "I believe in Jesus. I follow the teachings of Jesus. I am a Christian." But they do not appear to really even know who Jesus is according to the revelation we have been given. You can call it Christianity all you want or you can say we all believe in the same Jesus all you want but in reality it may not be Jesus anymore than I have a Porsche. Calling Jesus something that He is not even if you are sincere doesn't change who He really is or what He really taught.
A Porsche is a Porsche. A Honda is a Honda. No matter what we perceive them to be. There is only one Jesus who taught truth. He is not the author of confusion so I submit that the reason so many are confused is because they do not know the true Jesus.
You're not a Porsche owner if you only have a Honda. You're not a Christian if you do not "take up your cross" and follow the real Jesus. A counterfeit concept of Jesus doesn't count.
 
Upvote 0

Eldy

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2005
632
34
55
✟963.00
Faith
What silly little semantics. When we speak of Christ it is of course within the context of what we know through the pages of the Bible. On the flip side, how do you make your statements concerning Him with such little knowlege of His life?

Would that not make this quote of yours;

null and void since you are only referring to a couple of years that you can have any knowlege of?
 
Upvote 0

Eldy

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2005
632
34
55
✟963.00
Faith
MarsHill said:
You're not a Porsche owner if you only have a Honda. You're not a Christian if you do not "take up your cross" and follow the real Jesus. A counterfeit concept of Jesus doesn't count.
But you are assuming that YOUR Jesus is the only one that is truth. I just cannot accept that. There is too many differences in oppinion even within the Evangelical community as to what is what to therefore haul off and say that Mormons are heading to hell because they don't follow certain guidelines.

I think Jesus was so much more wonderful then that. He knew how we were so prone to getting off the path that He made it very simple. Place your faith in Him. Period....

Seems that I see many LDS people putting much faith in Jesus.
 
Upvote 0

MarsHill

Active Member
Nov 25, 2005
150
8
Florida
✟323.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private


It doesn't appear that what is being posted comes from what we find about Jesus within the context of the N.T. I'm not making comments about what Jesus did with most of His time either. The New Testament was given to us for a reason. It doesn't matter if your a fundamentalist hater, a liberal, a conservative, Republican, Democrat, atheist, Mormon, etc... You are responsible for the "entire" revelation thas has been given. Jesus said He was God not one of many gods. Jesus taught love and showed it many times through righteous anger that those around him witnessed and yet could not understand how that showed love. God gave us the sections and teachings of the life of Jesus that we need for our lives today.
It's not silly little semantics just because it doesn't suit the reader. We are not all taking what we have learned from the N.T. Much of what is being quoted out here comes from the Book of Mormon and other scholars that claim to have wonderful Biblical insight. Much of what we are debating is not N.T. knowledge it is the written opinions of men.
 
Upvote 0

MarsHill

Active Member
Nov 25, 2005
150
8
Florida
✟323.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private

I do not see near as many differences of opinion within the evangelical community that you claim exist. In fact most evangelicals all agree on the fundamentals of the faith and only differ on non-essential points. This is more about anger against the evangelicals than anything else. That's fine. We all have our issues about certain circles within the faith. You are entitled. In fact I currently have some issues with many calling themselves evangelicals.
 
Upvote 0

MarsHill

Active Member
Nov 25, 2005
150
8
Florida
✟323.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private

Seems that I see many LDS people putting much faith in a type of Jesus. Which is the same thing you are trying to hang me for.
 
Upvote 0

MarsHill

Active Member
Nov 25, 2005
150
8
Florida
✟323.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
CaDan said:
* CaDan eyes his copies of Bultmann, Kloppenberg, Dibelius, and Mack.

I'm not sure we want to get into this here in this thread . . . .

The MODS say we should not get into this here so we won't. Besides we already know how you feel about it and it won't be solved out here.
 
Upvote 0

MarsHill

Active Member
Nov 25, 2005
150
8
Florida
✟323.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private

Speaking of Red Herrings. Did this ever get answered?
 
Upvote 0

Eldy

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2005
632
34
55
✟963.00
Faith
Wow! this is a change. Not too long ago I was the fundy ev. and calling out anyone who was not.

The thing is that I also flung that idea that we only disagree on "non essentials" like it was candy on halloween. But I must ask, what is non-essential about any of the teachings of God?

Seems that we cannot even agree within the churches which of these items are the non-essentials.

Some say baptism is mandatory. Some say it is sprinkled and other demand it be by immersion.

Some say communion is mandatory but most cannot agree wether it be done with wine or grape juice or water.

And these are just a couple of problems.

No, it is not just non-essentials. It is division. The only thing that the evangelical church, of which I happen to be part, seems to agree on is that everyone who is not part is going to hell. That my friend I cannot be part of.
 
Reactions: ravenscape
Upvote 0

Eldy

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2005
632
34
55
✟963.00
Faith
MarsHill said:
Seems that I see many LDS people putting much faith in a type of Jesus. Which is the same thing you are trying to hang me for.
No, not trying to hang you at all. I see such a living faith in the little I know of you and I am happy that you have it. I am just trying to say that we don't have to take away the legitimacy of anothers faith because it is different in order to show ours to be correct.

The OP is "are mormons christian" and I just think that the answer still stands that yes, there are mormon christians the same as evangelical christians. There is also, I am sure many warming pews in both who could give a whip less about Jesus and are keeping up appearances.
 
Upvote 0

peepnklown

rabbi peepnklown
Jun 17, 2005
4,834
222
California
Visit site
✟30,864.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
MarsHill said:
A counterfeit concept of Jesus doesn't count.
I keep seeing a lot of claims without any support. I will ask once more, define Christianity, and then list the beliefs that you believe Mormons hold that are not Christian, then supply your evidence. (it will probably be easiest to handle them one at a time) So far, all you have typed out is opinion.
 
Upvote 0

kniht

Active Member
Nov 29, 2005
90
4
65
✟22,732.00
Faith
Christian

What matters is not your definition of what a Christian is, nor anyone elses. What matters (if you claim to be Christian) is what Jesus' definition of being a Christian is. if you choose to ignore His definition, we can safely say you are not a Christian.
 
Upvote 0

MarsHill

Active Member
Nov 25, 2005
150
8
Florida
✟323.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
MarsHill said:
Speaking of Red Herrings. Did this ever get answered?



?????????????? This has to do with the word eternal in the Greek. If life is eternal for the believer then punishment must also be eternal for the non-believer sense they both utilize the same Greek word. If the punishment ends up not being eternal then the Greek would also seem to say that the believer's life is not going to be eternal either.

I guess that I can use one of CaDan's rules for the forums.

"The one who knows the most Greek wins!"
 
Upvote 0

MarsHill

Active Member
Nov 25, 2005
150
8
Florida
✟323.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private

Is that your "opinion" that all I have done so far is type out my opinion?

If you are saying that my opinion is wrong then that would mean that you are claiming to have a better one.

Since when did "truth" become an opinion? What if what you are calling "my opinion" is actually truth and you just are not aware of it yet?
 
Upvote 0

MarsHill

Active Member
Nov 25, 2005
150
8
Florida
✟323.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private

I will absolutely agree with you on your statement about people sitting in evangelical churches who do not give a whip about Jesus. That is the biggest problem I see with the church. In fact, it is something I am battling right now in my life with some church attenders. People claiming to love God yet they do not love their spouses, family, or neighbor. People who claim to follow Jesus but have so much hatred in their hearts that they refuse to forgive. People who claim to worship a God that they do not even know. People who are more concerned with what everyone is driving to church or wearing to church than the things of God. I could go on and on.
 
Upvote 0

MarsHill

Active Member
Nov 25, 2005
150
8
Florida
✟323.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private


It's posts like this that label the God of evangelicals as MegaGawd and Super Maxi God as if He were a feminine hygiene product that I find most offensive.
But equally as offensive to me are the characterizations of Jesus like---

The new Jesus
100% re-invented Jesus
The new and improved Jesus
Jesus- now with 45% more love than your Jesus
Jesus- now with an 85% less evangelical nature
Jesus- comes with all you see here plus an extra action figure of his spirit brother satan
Jesus- Still in the grave. Not alive like the one we used to know.
Jesus- He's still the one but not the only one.
Jesus- 45% less Jewish and 45% more tolerable.
Jesus- 100% Muslim
Jesus for 2005- 100% less God, 100% less righteous, 100% less alive, 100% less condemning, 100% USDA approved, 100% Democrat, 100% X-rated, 100% Drug Using, 100% of everything you want Him to be and 0% of what you don't want Him to be.
And last but not least---- the Jesus on the bigscreen looking helplessly at Darth Vader as Vader says, "Jesus, I am your father!" Jesus.

I just don't see where we have that kind of room for developing all of the theologies we have developed and still call it Christianity.
 
Upvote 0

savedbyfaithinchrist

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2005
469
2
47
Willaimsport PA BLaaaaaa
✟612.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I DONT CARE WHAT YOU CALL YOURSELFS I LOVE YOU AS CHRIST LOVES YOU BUT BE WARNED ABOUT THE BOOK OF MORMAN.
REVELATION 22:18-2118 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: REVELATION 22:18-2119 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. REVELATION 22:18-2120 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. REVELATION 22:18-2121 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
 
Upvote 0