ARE GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS ABOLISHED?

LoveGodsWord · Aug 26, 2018

Hi expos4ever, nice to see you again, welcome to another thread. Some comments for your consideration below.

expos4ever said:
To keep things under control, I will address bits and pieces at a time.

What in your view, do you think is out of control?

expos4ever said:
First, as a general principle, it must be agreed (how could right-thinking people not agree) that to affirm that the Law is a good thing is not necessarily to affirm that it remains in force. This is simple logic, and no reasonable person could argue this point. Training wheels "are a good thing", but once I have learned to ride my bike, they come off.

Sounds like a strawman argument to me. No one is saying that God's 10 commandments are good and they are Abolished as there is no scripture for this. Some people teach this that do not know the laws and their purpose under the OLD COVENANT and misunderstand the purpose of God's LAW (10 Commandments) in the NEW.

expos4ever said:
3. Of course Paul says that the doers of the Law will be justified. But, again, we need to think carefully and rigorously. Remember the context: Paul is scolding the disobedient Jew of His day. He can, of course, chide such a Jew for not obeying the Law while also believing that, as of the cross, the Law comes to an end. Which is, in my opinion, the clear teaching of Paul (and Jesus, as well, but in a more subtle way).

Sorry brother God's WORD does not teach the 10 Commandments are abolished. See all the connecting scriptures in the OP with JESUS, PAUL, PETER, JOHN and JAMES all teaching the same thing.

expos4ever said:
6. This business of the law being written on the heart and mind is a little misleading; it beggars credulity to imagine that Paul is saying the written code is somehow "memorized" and still obeyed as a prescriptive code. This would be a really silly argument - anyone, at any time, could "write the law on their heart" in this simple "commit it to memory" sense. Remember what cannot be denied: Paul rejects "serving according to the Letter of the Law" in Romans 7. So it would be silly of him to also believe that we are to simply commit the Law to memory and still treat it as a prescriptive code. Paul, I claim, is talking about we now get the Spirit who guides us, according to the general principles of the Law of course, but not by its letter.

Another strawman, argument or misunderstanding. No one is teaching that the NEW COVENANT promise of HEBREWS 8:10-12 is about memorizing the 10 Commandments. God's WORD teaches we are saved by FAITH that workd by LOVE and that it is LOVE that fulfills God's LAW in those who BELIEVE his WORD. We are promised a NEW HEART to LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling [doing] of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE. This is what Paul is teaching in ROMANS 13:8-10 and Jesus is teaching in MATTHEW 22:36-40 and James in JAMES 2:8-11. We need t be Born again to LOVE with a NEW HEART. LOVE is the fulfilling God's LAW. If you LOVE your neighbor you will not KILL him right? This is why JESUS says to his followers, IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS because on the two great commandments of LOVE, hang all the law and the prophets. The NEW COVENANT is LOVE written on the heart to walk as God walked and to LOVE as Jesus first LOVED us.

expos4ever said:
9. This is what I am referring to in my general claim at the very beginning - just because the Law is "good" does not mean it remain eternally in force as a prescriptive code.

I do not think anyone has said that the LAW is good and remains in force as a prescriptive code. The purpose of Gods LAW is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN and RINGTEOUSNESS, it is the teacher that leads all to Christ that we might be justified by Faith.

expos4ever said:
10. God's law does indeed give the Jew the knowledge of sin. But, again, this is not a warrant to conclude it remains in force since this fact about the Law does not preclude the possibility that something else might come along to give us all knowledge of sin. And Paul puts the Spirit in that role.

No my friend, God's LAW does not only give JEWS a KNOWLEDGE of SIN. Maybe it is best to let God's WORD to the talking for this section...

ROMANS 3:9-20
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: FOR WE HAVE PROVED BOTH JEW AND GREEK, THAT THEY ARE ALL UNDER SIN;
[10], As it is written, THERE IS NONE RIGHTOUESS NO NOT ONE:
[11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
[13[, Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
[15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
[17], And the way of peace have they not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.
[19], NOW WE KNOW THAT WHATSOEVER THINGS THE LAW SAYS, IT SAYS TO THEM WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW; that EVERY mouth may be stopped, and ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.
[20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

ROMANS 2:12-13
[12], FOR AS MANY AS HAVE SINNED WITHOUT THE LAW SHALL PERISH WITHOUT THE LAW: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Why?

ROMANS 6:23 [23], FOR THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Yep this is the role of God's LAW in the NEW COVENANT. To give us a KNOWLEDGE of sin and rightouesness. (Romans 3:20; Romans 2:13; Psalms 119:172)

God's LAW (10 Commandments is the standard of the judgment for God's people. Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without the law shall perish without the law; WHY? Romans 6:23 because the wages of sin is death because they have not excepted the gift of God's dear son. As many as have sinned in the LAW (God's professed people) shall be judged by the LAW.

...............

So NO my friend, God's LAW does not only give JEWS a KNOWLEDGE of SIN. It is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS for the whole world and determines our salvation if broken weather your a JEW (God's Church) or GENTILE.

................

ROMANS 2:6-13
[6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
[7], To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
[8], But to them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
[9], Tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
[10], But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
[11], For there is no respect of persons with God.

[12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Hope this helps.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 26, 2018

Hi 1stcenturylady, some comments for your consideration below

1stcenturylady said:
Ask yourself - was God tired?
You are so hung up on the physical you miss the spiritual entirely. Guess who else finished their work? Jesus.

How does this say that God's 4th Commandments is a Shadow law and Jesus us a Sabbath?

1stcenturylady said:
Hebrews 4:
4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

The rest being spoken of here has nothing to do with physical rest. Keeping the Sabbath day was a tutorial of our trusting God. God always used physical things to teach spiritual matters, same as He did with unclean meats, and why they are no longer unclean (another letter of the law mistake Adventists make). God wasn't physically tired. It is the same as Jesus' command to be anxious for nothing. The Jews kept the Sabbath Day, but God says, they did not enter into His rest, so the day is not what is meant here. Besides, He is designating another day than the 7th day, but it is still not a physical day. It pointed to God's grace.

16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Now 1stcenturylady, your a funny one how does anything you have written above support your claim that God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH is a shadow and that Jesus is a Sabbath?

Ok, now that we have looked at your post and what you have said. Let's look at the scriptures in detail that disagree with you in HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4?

HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4. These chapters also link very nicely into PSLAMS 95 if you have some time to read it but we will not touch on PSALMS 95 in this post.

For this post let's look at HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4 and within Chapter and Scripture context highlighting what the scriptures are saying...

HEBREWS 3
8, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9, When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10, Why I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11, So I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
12, Take heed, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13, But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14, For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end;
15, While it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16, For some, when they had heard, did provoke: however, not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17, But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?
18, And to whom swore he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19, So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

..............

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 3

v8-10 God's people in the winderness erred and hardened their hearts not knowing God's ways
v11 Because they hardened their hearts not knowing God's way God was angry and did not let them enter HIS REST
v13 Hardness of heart comes from the deceitfulness of SIN (breaking God's LAW)
v19 God's people did not enter into God's REST because of UNBELIEF

..............

WHAT IS HIS (God's) REST IN HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4?

HEBREWS 4
1, Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2, For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3, For we which have believed do enter into REST, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4, For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did REST the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into my REST.

God's REST is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5). Those who BELIEVE GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD does on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. This is a direct reference to GENESIS 2:1-3 to God's REST on the SEVENTH DAY of the creation week (please GENESIS 2:1-3)

6, Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7, Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8, For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9, There remains a SABBATH REST to the people of God.
10, For he that is entered into his REST (SABBATH REST), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11, Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

..............

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4

v1-5 God's promised rest is from BELIEVING the GOSPEL (Word of God) and links directly to God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST from creation in GENESIS 2:1-3
v6 None enter into God's REST without BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD
v6-7 (see Heb 3:13) If we harden out heart by SIN and UNBELIEF we cannot enter God's REST through the Gospel
v-7-8 The true rest of the Gospel of Christ is the other rest spoken of another day in David (Psalms 95)
v9 God's people (those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD) have HIS SABBATH REST (God's REST) Sabbatismos

..............

CONCLUSION: Hebrews 3 and HEBREWS 4 is saying ONLY those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD enter into the Gospel rest and only those who enter the Gospel rest enter into God's 4th commandment's SABBATH REST

discipler7 · Aug 26, 2018

Soyeong said:
Acts 10:14-15 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.” 15 And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common.”

1stcenturylady said:
By showing that he cleansed the Gentiles, he stopped the law concerning EATING unclean meat. It was not an eternal law, but for a temporary purpose.

No, God did not cleanse the Gentiles wrt the Law, as in making them law-abiding or righteous immediately or at the blink of His eye(cf; 1CORINTHIANS.6:9-11).
....... God only accepted the mostly lawless Gentiles as they are, into His kingdom of heaven through believe in the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ, eg uncircumcised, eating unclean foods, etc. But God expected the Gentile Christians to gradually learn to become more law-abiding or righteous(1COR.3:1-3), especially wrt morality laws like the 10 Commandments. Like they say, "Rome was not built in a day."

No. God's Law is eternal on earth, ie not temporary or can be abolished by wishful thinking.
....... The only change was in how God's eternal Law or Moses Law had been applied to Jews versus Gentiles after the Jewish founder of Christianity came down to earth, ie Jesus Christ.

When Gentiles were invited to partake in the Holy Communion of Christ(= ACTS.10), God exempted new Gentile Christian adults from the burdensome parts of God's Law or Moses Law(ACTS.15:24-29), eg circumcision and kosher foods, while Jewish Christians were required by God to continue to keep Moses Law because it was not a burden to them.
.

MATTHEW.5:17-20 = 17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

ACTS.21:20-25 = And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.

25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.”

LoveGodsWord · Aug 26, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Jesus was not subordinate to the Sabbath.

What are you talking about saying Jesus was not subordinate to the Sabbath? What does that even mean? Jesus by saying that he is the LORD of the SABBATH is saying that he is the CREATOR of it and that he made it for all mankind (Mark 2:27-28). Jesus obeyed all of God's commandments otherwise he could not be our perfect sacrifice and there would be no salvation for mankind.

1stcenturylady said:
No. Jesus was Lord even of the Sabbath Matthew 12:8.

Indeed but the scripture reads;

MATTHEW 12:8 [8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Yep the Sabbath is a day alright. Connects nicely with GENESIS 2:1-3 when it was made before sin entered into the world when mankind was in perfect harmony with God.

GENESIS 2:1-3
[1], Thus the heavens and the earth WERE FINISHED, and all the host of them.
[2], And on the SEVENTH DAY GOD ENDED HIS WORK which he had made; and he RESTED on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made.
[3], And God blessed the SEVENTH DAY, and made it HOLY: because that in it HE HAD RESTED from all his work which God created and made.

1stcenturylady said:
The one thing we will disagree on is the Sabbath.

You are free wo believe and do as you wish. Keep in mind however James says that if we KNOWINGLY CONTINUE to break one of God's 10 commandments we stand guity before God or breaking them all. That is not a good look come judgment day.

1stcenturylady said:
The Sabbath wasn't an eternal law, as it wasn't in heaven before the foundation of the world.

Why would it be in heaven when it was given as a memorial of creation of the heavens and earth? GENESIS 2:1-3. You do know that God's Sabbath will be kept in the NEW EARTH don't you? (Isaiah 66:22-23).

1stcenturylady said:
It is the eternal laws of righteousness and holiness that are written on our hearts. They are the Royal Law. To love God with all your heart, mind and strength, and love your neighbor. The Ten Commandments are based on the Royal Law, but are not the laws written on our conscience.

Actually no we need to be Born again to have a NEW HEART to LOVE as he first LOVED US. On these two Commandments of LOVE hang all the LAW and the prophets (Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40). LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE AND FOLLOW God's WORD.

1stcenturylady said:
Like many things in the Mosaic Law such as feast days and holy convocations, they all point to Jesus.

Indeed but these are not God's 10 Commandments. They are the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT (Leviticus 23).

1stcenturylady said:
So how is the Sabbath day a foreshadow of Jesus. You find that in Hebrews 4. To enter into God's rest is to enter into God's grace.

And here you still are not able to provide a single scripture from Hebrews 4 that says God's Sabbath is a shadow of anything or have you provided a single scripture that says that Jesus is a Sabbath. Yet you have been shown scripture in return that shows that Hebrews 4 is talking about God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH and that the SABBATH is the SEVENTH DAY of the creation week. (HEBREWS 4:1-5; 9-11)

HEBREWS 4
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
[4], For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did rest the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD and enter into that rest.

[6], Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[7], Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
[8], For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9], There remains a SABBATH REST to the people of God.

Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “There remains therefore a SABBATH rest to the people of God.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

[10], For he that is entered into his rest (v9 SABBATH REST), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[11], Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (Heb 3).

Yep lots of scripture here showing that if you do not enter into God's Gospel rest you cannot enter his SABBATH REST. v 1-4 is the context of the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH confirmed in v9-11

1stcenturylady said:
It is no longer the letter of the law, but Jesus is the Spirit of the law that we rest in daily, not once a week as a mere example.

Depends, it is the letter of the law if you a breaking it because sin is the transgression of God's LAW and the wages of sin is death to those who reject the gift of God's dear son (Hebrews 10:26-27; James 2:11; Romans 7:7; Romans 3:9-20; Romans 6:23)

Sorry 1stcenturylady, God's WORD disagrees with you.

Hope this is helpful

discipler7 · Aug 26, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
So how is the Sabbath day a foreshadow of Jesus. You find that in Hebrews 4. To enter into God's rest is to enter into God's grace.

1stcenturylady said:
Be anxious for nothing! We got word that the company I was working for was going to do a 90% layoff. A Muslim man kept coming and asking if I was worried, and I said, not at all. The day came, and I was laid off. The very next day I started drawing unemployment for 2 years, my mortgage was paid for a year, and I started drawing early social security. I'm sorry if you can't trust God to take care of things for you. You know, worry is a sin, don't you?

ISAIAH.5:20 = Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

DEUTERONOMY.12:8-11 = 8 “You shall not at all do as we are doing here today—every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes— 9 for as yet you have not come to the rest and the inheritance which the Lord your God is giving you. 10 But when you cross over the Jordan and dwell in the land which the Lord your God is giving you to inherit, and He gives you rest from all your enemies round about, so that you dwell in safety, 11 then there will be the place where the Lord your God chooses to make His name abide.

JUDGES.17:6 = 6 In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes.
.
.
Entering into God's rest in Canaan or heaven is different from God's commandment to the Jews to keep the Sabbath.
....... For Gentile Christians, they need not keep the Jewish Sabbath but they should rest at least one day per week, which may fall on any day of the week.

JLB777 · Aug 26, 2018

Soyeong said:
The Sabbath is a precious gift from God given for His people's own good and to bless us, so even if we weren't commanded to keep the Sabbath, then we should still seek out the privilege and the delight of getting to keep it.

Amen. Well said.

Could you share some scriptures with me where Jesus or His apostles give us instructions on how the Church is to keep or observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant?

I believe God made the Sabbath for man
To rest.

JLB

expos4ever · Aug 26, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Let's go through it slowly together maybe it will help if we go through the scriptures a little slower, sorry I thought you understood the context of these scriptures.

You are exceedingly patronizing - this sort of over the top condescension is, of course, wildly inappropriate. Do you think you are talking to a child?

The whole point of my post was the "but now" in verse 21. One of the pillars of your whole position appears to be that we need the Law to tell us what sin is. Well, that may well have been the case, at least for the Jews (who were the only ones under the Law, although you appear to deny this).

However, Paul introduces the phrase "but now", suggested that something has changed. As per post: when someone writes in the following format:

X, but now Y

...the "but now" is a clear signal that X is now "out of date".

expos4ever · Aug 26, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Correct me if I am wrong about your interpretation of the scriptures above. You seem to be making another strawman argument that no one is talking about. Who has said to you that God's LAW nullifiers the NEW COVENANT promise or that salvation is the inheritance of the LAW?

Let me re-state my point.

Your position on the whole tutor things appears to be that, in each believer's life, the Law is what gives us the knowledge of sin and therefore makes us aware that we need Jesus. Is that more or less correct - I am fairly confident you have made this kind of argument.

My point is that the context shows that Paul is making an historical argument about the role of the Law in the broad plan of redemption. As such, Paul is not describing how the Law functions in each believer's life to bring them to faith; instead, the Law was part of an unfolding redemption plan that God is implementing over the fulness of time. And now (that is, for Paul's "now"), Christ has arrived and, having served its role, the Law is set aside.

Please clarify - concisely please - exactly how you interpret "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith".

And, please, if possible, try to tighten up your posts - it's tough to wade through such lengthy posts.

corinth77777 · Aug 26, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
A lot. Highlighted in red.

HEBREWS 4
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
[4], For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did rest the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD and enter into that rest.

[6], Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[7], Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
[8], For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9], There remains a SABBATH REST to the people of God.

Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “There remains therefore a SABBATH rest to the people of God.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

................

INTERLINEAR HEBREWS 4:9

αρα απολειπεται σαββατισμος τω λαω του θεου
So then there remains a Sabbath rest to the people - of God

................

Parallel translations of HEBREWS 4:9

New International Version
There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

English Standard Version
So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,

Berean Study Bible
So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Berean Literal Bible
So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

New American Standard Bible
So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, a Sabbath rest remains for God's people.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, a Sabbath rest remains for God's people.

International Standard Version
There remains, therefore, a Sabbath rest for the people of God to keep,

NET Bible
Consequently a Sabbath rest remains for the people of God.

New Heart English Bible
There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

New American Standard 1977
There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

American Standard Version
There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Darby Bible Translation
There remains then a sabbatism to the people of God.

English Revised Version
There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Weymouth New Testament
It follows that there still remains a sabbath rest for the people of God.

World English Bible
There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Young's Literal Translation
there doth remain, then, a Sabbatic rest to the people of God,

................

continuing...

[10], For he that is entered into his rest (v9 SABBATH REST), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[11], Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (Heb 3).

Yep lots of scripture here showing that if you do not enter into God's Gospel rest you cannot enter his SABBATH REST. v 1-4 is the context of the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH confirmed in v9-11

Hebrews 3-4 is talking about the Gospel and the keeping of God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH by BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD.

There remains therefore a SABBATH rest to the people of God. Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief v9-11. HEBREWS 4 supports the keeping of the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH by believing and following the Word of God.

Hope this helps.

Yes I see all that you have wrote but missing where we disagree...
For the7th day Sabbath is what we enter into in Christ[his life] and there which the shadow He himself if I recall correctly rested in that Day...as Jesus arose from the dead..if we enter into life through obedience casting our cares upon Him....

1stcenturylady · Aug 26, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Yet here you are not able to show a single scripture that says God's 4th Commandment is a Shadow law or can you provide a single scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath? Just speaking your own words over Gods WORD does not make God's WORD disappear. We should believe and follow the WORD of GOD over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

Why? Because I didn't in that one post? LOL Colossians 2:16 says all the Sabbaths are Shadows. year, month, week.

1stcenturylady · Aug 26, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Not really 1stcenturylady, what makes you think that you have to change my mind?

You have no scripture for your position in relation to God's 4th Commandment being a shadow of anything as it was made by God before sin when mankind was in perfect harmony with God.

Sorry 1stcenturylady, there is no scripture that teaches that Jesus is a Sabbath. It is God's WORD that teaches that God's 4th Commandments is the SEVENTH DAY of the week and it is God alone that has set the SEVENTH DAY of the week apart and has commanded his people to keep it as a HOLY day (GENESIS 2:1-3; EXODUS 20:8-12).

God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 commandments that give us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is if broken. God's WORD says if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them (James 2:8-11).

All those who CONTINUE to practice KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into God's KINGDOM (Hebrews 10:26-27; 1 John 2:3-4; Romans 2:6-13; Hebrews 6:4-8)

Hope this helps

Are you under the law?

1stcenturylady · Aug 26, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi 1stcenturylady, some comments for your consideration below

How does this say that God's 4th Commandments is a Shadow law and Jesus us a Sabbath?

Now 1stcenturylady, your a funny one how does anything you have written above support your claim that God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH is a shadow and that Jesus is a Sabbath?

Ok, now that we have looked at your post and what you have said. Let's look at the scriptures in detail that disagree with you in HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4?

HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4. These chapters also link very nicely into PSLAMS 95 if you have some time to read it but we will not touch on PSALMS 95 in this post.

For this post let's look at HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4 and within Chapter and Scripture context highlighting what the scriptures are saying...

HEBREWS 3
8, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9, When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10, Why I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11, So I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
12, Take heed, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13, But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14, For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end;
15, While it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16, For some, when they had heard, did provoke: however, not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17, But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?
18, And to whom swore he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19, So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

..............

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 3

v8-10 God's people in the winderness erred and hardened their hearts not knowing God's ways
v11 Because they hardened their hearts not knowing God's way God was angry and did not let them enter HIS REST
v13 Hardness of heart comes from the deceitfulness of SIN (breaking God's LAW)
v19 God's people did not enter into God's REST because of UNBELIEF

..............

WHAT IS HIS (God's) REST IN HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4?

HEBREWS 4
1, Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2, For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3, For we which have believed do enter into REST, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4, For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did REST the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into my REST.

God's REST is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5). Those who BELIEVE GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD does on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. This is a direct reference to GENESIS 2:1-3 to God's REST on the SEVENTH DAY of the creation week (please GENESIS 2:1-3)

6, Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7, Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8, For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9, There remains a SABBATH REST to the people of God.
10, For he that is entered into his REST (SABBATH REST), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11, Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

..............

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4

v1-5 God's promised rest is from BELIEVING the GOSPEL (Word of God) and links directly to God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST from creation in GENESIS 2:1-3
v6 None enter into God's REST without BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD
v6-7 (see Heb 3:13) If we harden out heart by SIN and UNBELIEF we cannot enter God's REST through the Gospel
v-7-8 The true rest of the Gospel of Christ is the other rest spoken of another day in David (Psalms 95)
v9 God's people (those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD) have HIS SABBATH REST (God's REST) Sabbatismos

..............

CONCLUSION: Hebrews 3 and HEBREWS 4 is saying ONLY those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD enter into the Gospel rest and only those who enter the Gospel rest enter into God's 4th commandment's SABBATH REST

Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 is saying that even though they had and followed the Sabbath Commandment, that wasn't entering into God's rest, so it is not what you are claiming.

1stcenturylady · Aug 26, 2018

discipler7 said:
ISAIAH.5:20 = Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

DEUTERONOMY.12:8-11 = 8 “You shall not at all do as we are doing here today—every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes— 9 for as yet you have not come to the rest and the inheritance which the Lord your God is giving you. 10 But when you cross over the Jordan and dwell in the land which the Lord your God is giving you to inherit, and He gives you rest from all your enemies round about, so that you dwell in safety, 11 then there will be the place where the Lord your God chooses to make His name abide.

JUDGES.17:6 = 6 In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes.
.
.
Entering into God's rest in Canaan or heaven is different from God's commandment to the Jews to keep the Sabbath.
....... For Gentile Christians, they need not keep the Jewish Sabbath but they should rest at least one day per week, which may fall on any day of the week.

So what are you saying? That I should have been worried about being laid off, or that I was being evil by testifying of the goodness of the Lord?

Isn't what you are doing calling good evil? Sick!

expos4ever · Aug 26, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Sorry brother God's WORD does not teach the 10 Commandments are abolished. See all the connecting scriptures in the OP with JESUS, PAUL, PETER, JOHN and JAMES all teaching the same thing.

Come on now, play fair - you are evading (again). Let's revisit what led to this (above) statement of yours. The title of this threat that you started is "Are the 10 Commandments Abolished", and in the OP you stated (I added the emphasis).

Paul affirms the Ten Commandments……

1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16

Given the title of the OP, you are clearly trying to argue that Romans 2:13-16 supports the notion that the 10 commandments were not abolished. I responded by pointing out that the fact that Jews who lived under the Law of Moses would indeed be judged by it, but this fact has no bearing whatsoever on whether the Law of Moses (including the 10) had been abolished by the time Paul penned those words.

Conclusion: Against what you claim, Romans 2:13-16 in no wise supports the claim that the 10 are still in force. Your response, above, evades my point and simply re-asserts your position.

Now let me be clear: it may well turn out (although I doubt it) that all these other scriptures you point me to in your response turn out to support your position. But that is not the point - Romans 2:13-16 in partiular clearly does not support your claim that the 10 are abolished.

1stcenturylady · Aug 26, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
MATTHEW 12:8 [8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Yep the Sabbath is a day alright. Connects nicely with GENESIS 2:1-3 when it was made before sin entered into the world when mankind was in perfect harmony with God.

GENESIS 2:1-3
[1], Thus the heavens and the earth WERE FINISHED, and all the host of them.
[2], And on the SEVENTH DAY GOD ENDED HIS WORK which he had made; and he RESTED on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made.
[3], And God blessed the SEVENTH DAY, and made it HOLY: because that in it HE HAD RESTED from all his work which God created and made.

LOL I never said the Sabbath wasn't a day.

Answer this question. What makes us dead to sin?

Dave B · Aug 26, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello 1stcenturylady, Nice to see you again.

hmm you have to disagree with a lot of scripture provided in the OP above with Jesus and the Apostles confirming God's 10 Commandments to believe that would't you? Gods LAW is the LAW of liberty because walking in God's Spirit we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Galatians 5:16)

Only God's WORD is true and it should be our guide for what we believe and follow.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word

There 613 laws (called the Mitzvot - see http://www.friendsofsabbath.org/Fur...od/THE 613 LAWS of the OLD TESTAMENT.pdf)that were condensed into the 10 Commandments as we know them.

Jesus did not come to counteract or change the Old testament, but He came to fulfill them. The Manna (bread from God) fed their bodies, the Bread (Holy Eucharist) feeds their souls. The Jews entered the Old Covenant with circumcision, we enter the New Testament with the Sacrament of Baptism. etc.

corinth77777 · Aug 26, 2018

corinth77777 said:
Yes I see all that you have wrote but missing where we disagree...
For the7th day Sabbath is what we enter into in Christ[his life] and there which the shadow He himself if I recall correctly rested in that Day...as Jesus arose from the dead..if we enter into life through obedience casting our cares upon Him....

These are some of the thoughts that came to me......
The promise land was a type that prefigured
Christ's rest. The sabath that was made for man not man for the sabbath is Christ's life; as an example of that. When He died He said it was Finished like as the promise land was already in the mist of them..but they failed to see it.
Because they did not mix what they heard with faith.....
How is the 7th Day Sabbath a shadow well one way may be-the same God rested in that Day...God is in the Day. The Day of Christ[life]
He did not create anything on the seventh Day...but you notice it's still a Day...most likely a Day of eternal rest for those who put their trust in Him. As the Sabbath was to be about where the people of God wouldreceived our future rest.

Recall these are just my thoughts that came to me...nothing conclusive ...unless scripture verifies them...

corinth77777 · Aug 26, 2018

The Sabbath for us is everyday casting our cares to the Lord...

jaygatz · Aug 26, 2018

Your right the 10 commandments stand. However Jesus came here and died so we can be saved from sin. Thats why the old law is kind of obsolete. There is nothing we can do that we can not be saved for.

LadyCrosstalk · Aug 26, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi all,

Some people are going around teaching that God's 10 Commandments are ABOLISHED and no longer a standard for Christian living. Yet the NEW TESTAMENT alone does not teach this at all.

1 JOHN 2:1-4
[1], MY LITTLE CHILDREN, THESE THINGS, I WRITE UNTO YOU THE YOU SIN NOT. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[2], And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.
[4], HE THAT SAYS, I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

WHAT DID JESUS AND THE APOSTLES TEACH ABOUT GOD’S LAW
(the scriptures below are no where near exhaustive from the NT alone)

Jesus taught the 10 commandments…..

1. Jesus kept God’s Law (10 commandments) and said the Law and the prophets would not pass away (Matt 5:17-18)
2. Jesus taught others to follow the 10 commandments (Mark 10:17-21)
3. Jesus taught that Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God’s Law (10 commandments Matt 22:36-40)
4. If we break God’s Law by following man-made traditions we are not following God (Matt 15:3-9)
5. Jesus says if we commit sin we are a servant of sin and he has come to free us from sin (John 8:32-36)
6. Jesus taught if you love God you will keep God’s Law and abide in His Love (John 14:15; 15:10
7. If anyone is breaking any of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven <least = lost> (Matt 5:19)
8. No one can obey God’s Law producing the fruit of obedience of ourselves and unless we abide in Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:4-10)

Paul affirms the Ten Commandments……

1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
4. Paul asks that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
6 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11
7. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
8. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
9. God's Law (10 commandments) are holy, just and good (Rom 7:12)
10. God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Rom 3:20; 7:7)
11. The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death (Rom 6:23)
12. If we break God's Law we dishonor God (Rom 2:23)
13. If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God (Rom 3:19)
14. We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us (Rom 3:31)
15. If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law (Rom 6:1-7)
16. We should not break God's Law if we are under grace (Rom 6:15)
17. We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts (Rom 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2)
18. It is God's Law that brings us to Jesus (Gal 3:24)
19. God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness (Rom 6:22)
20. We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith (Rom 2:4-13)
21. God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word (Rom 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Heb 8:9-10)
22. If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements (Heb 10:26-27)

John affirms the 10 commandments……

1. John says it is only by keeping God’s 10 commandments that we know that we know God (1 John 2:3)
2. If someone says that they know God and do not keep God’s 10 commandments they are lying and not telling the truth (1 John 2:4)
3. We should purify ourselves as Jesus is pure (1 John 3:3)
4. Sin is the breaking of God’s 10 commandments (1 John 3:4)
5. Whoever is abiding in Christ does not commit sin (1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10)
6. If you are in unrepentant sin you have not seen Jesus or know him (1 John 3:6)
7. John warns us that only those that are obedience to God’s Law are his true followers (1 John 3:7)
8. If someone is committing unrepentant sin they are following the devil and not God (1 John 3:7)
9. If you are born of God and abiding in him you will not commit sin (1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10
10. It is the keeping of God’s commandments that is the difference between those that are following God and those that are not following God (1 John 3:10; 1 John 5:3)
11. It is only by Love through faith that we can keep God’s commandments (1 John 5:3-4)
12. God’s true believers in the end days will keep all of God’s commandments through faith in Jesus (Rev 14:12; 22:14)

James also affirms the 10 commandments…….

1. James says God’s Law (10 commandments) are a Royal Law (James 2:8)
2. If we break one of God’s commandments we a guilty before God as sinners breaking all of God’s Law and gave some examples of breaking God’s Law (James 2:9-11)
3. James says God’s Law is a law of liberty and freedom (James 2:12)
4. The 10 commandments (God’s Law) are the standard in the judgment (James 2:12)
5. If our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God’s Law it is dead and not true faith (James 2:16-26)

Peter affirms the 10 commandments……..

1. Sanctification is to obedience to God’s Law (1 Pet 1:2)
2. We can only be changed from sin to obedience to God’s Law by the power of God and it will be revealed in the last days (1 Pet 1:5)
3. We should give up our sins to be holy because Jesus is holy (1 Pet 1:13-16)
4. Jesus is your example who did no sin (1 Pet 2:21-22)
5. Cease from sin and do not live in the flesh (1 Pet 4:1-3)
6. Judgement will begin at the house of God and sinners (those breaking God’s 10 commandments) will not be saved.
7. God has given us his precious promises and as we believe them God will grant us his divine power to live a life of Godliness (obedience to God’s Law; 2 Pet 1:2-4)
8. The Un-Godly (disobedient to God’s Law) will be like Sodom and Gomorrah (2 Pet 2:6)
9. If any turn away from God’s Law and are in unrepentant sin breaking any of God’10 commandments they will be lost (2 Pet 2:20-22)
10 God is not willing that any should perish but that everyone should come to repentance and turn away from sin to follow God’s 10 commandments because those that do not will receive the judgements of God (2 Pet 3:5-14)

I see some people do not know what made up the OLD COVENANT laws and their purpose in both the OLD and NEW COVENANT and therefore think God's LAW has been abolished when it is only th SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and not God's ETERNAL LAW that gives us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4)

CAN'T HAVE A GOSPEL WITHOUT THE LAW

I believe the role of God's LAW is to give us a KNOLEDGE of good and evil; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS. Nothing more and nothing less. They are our duty of LOVE to God and man. They show us that all we can do without Jesus is sin and that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour.

*If God's LAW is ABOLSHED then we no longer have any KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is.
*If we have no KNOWLEDGE of what sin is and that we are sinners we ahve no need of a Saviour
*If we have no need of a Saviour then we have no Salvation
*If we have no Salavtion then we are still in our sins and the scriputure is fulfilled...

ROMANS 2:12-13 [12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

My thoughts is that we are NOT SAVED by God's 10 Commandments. Their purpose is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is and to lead us to the Cross so that we might be justified by faith (Galatains 3:23-24). The ROLE of God's LAW is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of good and evil; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20; Psalms 119:172; James 2:11 Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). In the NEW COVENANT God's LAW is to be written on our hearts as we are born again to LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE God's WORD (Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40; 1 John 3:3-10; John 3:3)

OPEN FOR FRIENDLY CHRISTIAN DISCUSSION.

What are your thoughts? ARE God's 10 Commandments ABOLISHED like some think and no longer the standard for Christian living?

May God bless you as we seek him through his WORD

This is a slightly complicated issue. No, God's Law (the Commandments) is NOT abolished. It is very much in force for mankind--in general. However, those who truly follow Christ have His Holy Spirit within them to "help" them to avoid the breaking of the Law and, instead, EXCEED the requirements of the Law. None of the Ten Commandments require us to love and/or pray for those who have set themselves as our enemies--yet, Jesus told His followers to do so.

Time and again, worldly minds are boggled when a Christian forgives those who are guilty of crimes against him/her or a member of his/her family. It is something very special, and worldly minds simply cannot understand it. To the world, it marks Christians as "weak chumps" when, it is, in fact, the greatest strength that any human can display. It is when a human being is most like his/her Lord Jesus. That is why the true Church--the Bride of Christ, is at the very center of Christ's passionate, enduring love.

However, the unbelieving world is STILL responsible for obeying the requirements of the Ten Commandments and, in fact, those Laws will be the basis of their condemnation at the Final Judgment (the Great White Throne Judgment). Since they will be without the Blood of Jesus to absolve their sin, they will pay the penalty themselves. The Almighty God's justice demands that there be a payment for sin. Believers have the mercy of Jesus taking our sin upon Him and paying the penalty. Those who do not have that forgiveness must pay the penalty for their own sin. If anyone is granted clemency, it will likely be because that person honestly tried to meet those obligations and that he/she attempted to love others in a selfless way. Those granted clemency will not be part of the blessed Church but they will "escape though as through fire" the judgment of the damned.

ARE GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS ABOLISHED?

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