Are all TE's "liberal"?

[Vance]

I think many Young Earth Creationists believe that those who don’t accept their particular interpretation of Genesis are liberal, or even nominal, Christians. They are "compromising" Christians who feel the need to please the "World". This is not true, and I am living proof.

I am a Christian.

I am a conservative: morally, religiously and politically.

I vote Republican, oppose abortion, oppose homosexual clergy, and supported the war in Iraq.

While I love nature and backpack regularly, I drive a Range Rover and don't get all uptight over it.

I don’t drink, smoke, use drugs or curse, and never have.

I do not cater to the World, and I share my faith regularly.

I do not compromise my faith to please those around me.

I attend a fundamentalist Church and have taught Sunday School and led adult Bible Studies.

I believe the Bible contains the holy, inerrant Word of God.

I am Spirit-filled and Spirit-led and am as open as I can possibly be to the prompting of the Spirit.

I believe that those who are saved are going to heaven and those who are not are going to hell.

I believe that no man "cometh unto the father but by Jesus"

I believe Man is in a fallen state and needs God’s redemptive gift and that the holy Word of God tells us exactly how this redemptive gift works and why we need it.

I believe that every thing in the Bible is God's true Word to us, but not always meant to be read literally.

I believe that God Created the Universe and everything in it.

I believe that God used evolution to create the diversity of life we see on this planet, even though He could have snapped everything into existence immediately.

I believe that nothing in Scripture contradicts either evolution or an Earth that is billions of years old.

So, while it is a "warm fuzzy" for YEC's to relegate a belief in an old earth and evolution to those "liberals" who are bent on watering down Christianity, etc,

I beg to differ . . .

 

[gluadys]

So, while it is a "warm fuzzy" for YEC's to relegate a belief in an old earth and evolution to those "liberals" who are bent on watering down Christianity, etc,[/size][/color][/font][/size][/color][/font][/size][/color][/font]

I beg to differ . . .

And you are not alone.

Here are two conservative TEs whose thoughts are available on line.

http://www.theistic-evolution.com/index.html
http://www.ualberta.ca/~dlamoure/3EvoCr.htm

I am afraid I fit the stereotype YECs find scary. In my book, liberalism is much too conservative for my taste. I find the American dualism (conservative or liberal, republican or democrat) very confining and like the fluidity of a wider range of choices both theologically and politically.

 

[herev]

pretty darn conservative here, too

 

[Didaskomenos]

Same here, with two exceptions. I believe the Founding Fathers were more libertarian than "Republican" (but there are problems with a pure libertarianism in dealing with today's America). I value the Bible as highly as the YEC's - but I view its nature differently. Otherwise I'm close to Vance. However, I realize that not accepting the complete list of fundamentalist dogmas as their leaders present it is enough to ostricize me as "liberal".

 

[rmwilliamsll]

no.
read Howard Van Till
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/s...d%2520J.%2520Van%2520Till/002-0521287-3324064
He is CRC

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_3/002-0521287-3324064?v=glance&s=books
conservative TEs all

 

[Vance]

Since this has become an issue in a subforum, I thought it would be helpful to post it.

 

[mhess13]

It's good to know that there are some Bible-believing TE's. BUT I have yet to personally meet a conservative TE. For all I know you conservative TE's may be imposters posing on the internet... kidding, kidding, kidding

seriously, I'm happy you guys believe the Bible. Just wish you'd read the first few chapter literally

 

[seebs]

seriously, I'm happy you guys believe the Bible. Just wish you'd read the first few chapter literally

... Why?

How is this any better than

"seriously, I'm happy you guys believe the Bible. Just wish you'd read the parable of the Prodigal Son literally"...?

Anyway, FWIW, I "believe the Bible"; I just have a liberal way of understanding what it says. I have generally found that, once I understand what it says, it's reliably right. But... That doesn't mean that the first thing some guy comes up with when reading a passage out of context is any good!

 

[Vance]

It's good to know that there are some Bible-believing TE's. BUT I have yet to personally meet a conservative TE. For all I know you conservative TE's may be imposters posing on the internet... kidding, kidding, kidding

seriously, I'm happy you guys believe the Bible. Just wish you'd read the first few chapter literally

Ah, but you have met us! Here we are!

Really, though, most YEC's really do seem to WANT TE's to be liberal, so they can explain away our acceptance of evolution and an old earth as just another aspect of our liberal theology. We kind of mess things up in that regard.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

if you are serious about this issue see:
http://www.asa3.org/gray/evolution_trial/index.html

from: http://www.asa3.org/evolution/veritas.html

The first order of business is to dissect the title of this workshop: Can a Christian Be an Evolution? ... and ... Can an Evolutionist Be a Christian? Are these really two separate questions? And surely they demand the same answer! The difference between the two is simply a difference in subject and direction.

The question: "Can a Christian Be an Evolutionist?" is aimed at Christians, someone who is already convinced of the truth of the Christian faith and who acknowledges the claims of Jesus Christ on his or her life. The question here is ... if I believe in God, in Christ, and believe that the Bible is God's word and an infallible revelation of truth, is there any reason to consider the theory of evolution and is it in any way compatible with my Christian commitments?

The question: "Can an Evoutionist Be a Christian?" is aimed at the evolutionist, someone who is thoroughly convinced that the evidence for evolution is compelling--perhaps even to the point of saying that if becoming a Christian means that I must abandon evolution, then I can't become a Christian. Today, I will be addressing skeptics and seekers. My hope is that if your being convinced of evolution (together with your intellectual integrity) has prevented you from becoming a Christian, that this particular objection will be removed.

 

[Bushido216]

Well, I'm a NY College Student, hah. I copied Vance's post since his was pretty well thought-out. I changed things as they apply to me. I figure, I could make my own list, but would it be as lucid? Probably not.

I am a Christian.

I am a liberal: morally, religiously and politically.

I vote Democratic, oppose abortion, oppose homosexual clergy, and was against the war in Iraq.

While I love nature, I drive a Nissan Maxima and cringe each time I read my gas gauge.

I drink in a blue moon and have the occassional cigar. Then again, so does every Bible thumper in Georgia, so...

I do not cater to the World, and I share my faith regularly.

I do not compromise my faith to please those around me.

I attend a Catholic Church and am a Scripture Sharer, sharing the most basic and fundmental messages of God with little kids, minus the religious claptrap usually associated.

I believe the Bible contains the holy, inerrant Word of God, wrapped up in the unholy, errant word of men who have written and translated God's Word times innumerable.

I have no idea what Spirit-filled means.

I believe that those who are saved are going to heaven and those who are not are going to hell.

It is my personal opinion that coming unto the Lord by way of Jesus is not as direct as simply having faith in him. It doesn't even require acknowledgement of Jesus as Lord, per se. Rather, as Jesus said, no matter who is helping the sick, feeding the poor, or housing the homeless, they do so in Christ's name and their work is Holy.

I believe Man is in a fallen state and needs God’s redemptive gift and that the holy Word of God tells us exactly how this redemptive gift works and why we need it.

I believe that every thing in the Bible is God's true Word to us, but not always meant to be read literally.

I believe that God Created the Universe and everything in it.

I believe that God used evolution to create the diversity of life we see on this planet, even though He could have snapped everything into existence immediately. This does not mean that God has held evolution's hand. Rather, God has allowed the processes that He has laid out to work without hindrance.

I believe that nothing in Scripture contradicts either evolution or an Earth that is billions of years old.

So, while it is a "warm fuzzy" for YEC's to relegate a belief in an old earth and evolution to those "liberals" who are bent on watering down Christianity, etc.

Hoo-ah!

 

[Bushido216]

Haha! Vance has 666 reputation! Oh my!

 

[Vance]

Yikes, someone hit me with some reps!

 

[bluejeans]

Trying to put a label on all christians is like trying to say that all
atheists are homosexuals. It's just not always the truth.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Indeed. Nearly all the homosexuals I know are Christians.

 

[Palatka44]

To me, and I am a YEC, a liberal labled "Christian" is one who believes that Jesus is not the only way to God or a Heavenly abode after death and there is no hell.

 

[mhess13]

Indeed. Nearly all the homosexuals I know are Christians.

oooooooooooooooooooookay

 

[Bushido216]

To me, and I am a YEC, a liberal labled "Christian" is one who believes that Jesus is not the only way to God or a Heavenly abode after death and there is no hell.

I'm glad that liberal means that to you.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

oooooooooooooooooooookay

Don't fret; you'll be relieved to learn that many - perhaps most - of them are celibate.

 

[mhess13]

I should only hope that they are celibate! You don't have to be a "fundie" to know that homosexuality and Christianity are wholly incompatable!

Rom 1:26-27 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.