Aramaic, The True NT language?

Sabian · Oct 8, 2003

We cannot just recieve every person that is there and "seems" to be on a side, good or bad or nothing(indifferent)

Recieve me or not I do not care Sojeru.

I would say you are correct you are young.

Sabian · Oct 8, 2003

Shalom Higher truth, I put you Quotes in ((()))

(((When you see the term "Hebrew tongue" in the scriptures, it is often times referring to Aramaic.)))

Please show me examples. Are all the scriptures I posted talking about Aramaic?

(((Jesus spoke Aramaic to Paul on the road to Damascus. )))
Where did you learn that? I do not find that in scripture. I have not said that YAHSHUA did not know how to speak Aramaic. His native tounge was Hebrew. I know alittle sign language, and spanish because I work with Cubins. YAHSHUA knew all tounges.
He grew up in a place that had mulitble Languages.
(((Paul spoke to the centurion in Greek, and then to his fellow Jews in Aramaic. ))) Yes Paul was a Roman citizen, but Paul was also from the tribe of Benjamin. Paul was highly educated man, also spent alot of time in the TEMPLE where the HEBREW LANGUAGE WAS SPOKEN. How about John the Baptist ? Did his parents have any thing to do with the Temple? Do you think John Spoke Hebrew?

I think that if scripture says Hebrew tounge ,it means Hebrew tounge.You are right though, it became the temple language, But the Hebrew language is more then that and you know it.
The Temple is where YAHSHUA went when he was 12 to inlighten the preist. HE expounded the scriptures. This is the reasons I say YAHSHUA spoke learned and most likely wrote Hebrew. He knew the Hebrew scriptures well.

Another point to bring up, YAHSHUA's Mother.
The Gosple of the Birth of Mary
CHAPTER 1 verse 1:The blessed and ever glorious Virgin Mary , Sprung From the royal race and the Family of David, was born in the city of Nazareth, and educated at Jerusalem, in the temple of YHWH.

The reason I bring this up, YAHSHUA's Mother was brought up in the temple. She spoke Hebrew. It is the best language to study scripture in.
I mean, if most of the bible comes to us from Hebrew, then shouldn't we look at the whole bible from a Hebrew point of view?

This is how I see it any way.

simchat_torah · Oct 9, 2003

Sabian, do not be so harsh on Sojeru. I have to be honest, your grammar is often confusing and unclear. I had the same thoughts as Sojeru about your post as well. He merely was asking you to clarify.

shalom,
Yafet.

Sabian · Oct 9, 2003

Yes I apolagise Just seems that He is in a click.

simchat_torah · Oct 9, 2003

In a clique? how so?

SonWorshipper · Oct 9, 2003

sojeru said:
Hi SW,
thanks for sticking up for him- However there are no accusations made- I was asking him intently to figure out exactly where he is comming from- and I would still need his answer as i do not know his intent or position-

Just stating what I saw not siding with anyone, no foul on you or him.

sojeru said:
and I have thought that maybe he is only trying to bring up scripture showing thus as you said- I myself just need to be sure- we are all shomrim and we need to keep guard over eachother.

Amein!

SonWorshipper · Oct 9, 2003

Sabian said:
We cannot just recieve every person that is there and "seems" to be on a side, good or bad or nothing(indifferent)

Recieve me or not I do not care Sojeru.

I would say you are correct you are young.

Sabian ( Sonworshipper sticks her head out again ) I don't think that Sojeru was saying that he was not receiving you, just that we must discern intently, as on the internet we have only words to convey which leaves us to a disadvantage as we lack seeing the body language and hearing the tone of the voice and basically how someone is day to day. We must be on guard and to not follow down every , ( dare I say it? ) rabbit trail that we come upon. Learn to descern, this is what I believe that Sojeru was implying, not that you seem to be a good person and he doesn't recieve you. And as well his physical age has nothing to do with his wisdom. That does not come from age but from above, especially in spiritual matters. That depends on one's will and openess to the Ruach, not how many years they have lived on earth.

Let us all continue on posting in love and learning and be open to the Spirit talking, for He speaks through those vessels He alone chooses.

Every body Hug now!

SonWorshipper · Oct 9, 2003

Sabian said:
That YAHSHUA spoke and studied Hebrew. That the New Testament was writen in Hebrew.
Yes aramic was spoken then .

But the Hebrew is the one we need to look at.

Aramaic is a corrupted Language.

Three things:

1. How is Aramaic a "corrupted language"?

2. We need Hebrew to look at.........................?

3. I don't believe Y'shua studied Hebrew at all, He created the languages so I think that was a given for Him to speak in any that He needed to. As well when he was only 12 he was TEACHING in the Temple.

simchat_torah · Oct 9, 2003

I don't believe Y'shua studied Hebrew at all, He created the languages so I think that was a given for Him to speak in any that He needed to. As well when he was only 12 he was TEACHING in the Temple.

It always seems that christians (and to some extent messianics) want to take away from Y'shua's humanity. I think it causes fear of heretical thought if one does so. I do believe that he studied Hebrew. We do know for sure that he knew hebrew as he read from the scrolls in the synagouge (which were all written in Hebrew).

I think that spiritually he was granted perfect discernment (ie: spirits, prophecy, etc) however, I think that he had human capacity as far as the mind goes.

just my 2 cents.

AnthonyForChrist · Oct 9, 2003

The Thadman said:
All 7 of those are not Trinities

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 are three separate gods.
7 is one deity in three forms only one capable of manifestation at a time, not one deity existing simultaneously in three facets.

This only shows that you do not comprehend the abstract concept of a trinity.

Shlomo,

I've studied Hinduism, and Brahm, Siva, and Visnu are a "trinity." It's called trimurti, or "three-form." Notice the word form is not plural, but singular.

simchat_torah · Oct 9, 2003

This only shows that you do not comprehend the abstract concept of a trinity

Well, maybe we don't understand your particular brand of trinity, however...

From the dictionary:
Trinity.
the union of three divine persons

Now again, maybe there's specifics to your particular brand of trinity, but the aforementioned deities certainly are trinities to one degree or another.

Now, I do have a degree in philosophy and I've studied all of these deities to one extent or another.

(1) Ra, Isis, Osiris
These were originally 3 seperate deities who became one entitiy through a union... they are now one being: a trinity.

(2) Brahma,Shiva, Krishna
Hindu itself even defines these three as a trinity. I have to wonder why this was even brought into quesiton.

(3) Baal, Semiramis, Tammuz
This is the most ancient trinity, supposedly dating back to Nimrod's pagan influences. Tammuz interestingly inspired all subsequent sun deities.

(4) Bel, Ishtar,Duzu
This trinity can find it's origins in the Babylonian Tammuz trinity.

(5) Zeus, Demeter, Porephene
This is one that I would actually question about being a 'trinity'.

(6) Apollo, Athena,Nike
These three were originally varying dieties, however it is supposed by scholars that in the 4th century BCE they became one deity... resulting in a trinity.

(7) In Japan, San Pao Fuh means one deity three forums
This is one deity with 3 drastically different facets of personality... or 3 beings caught into one deity (depending on which Japanese tradition). Granted, only one is allowed to be manifested at once, it is still 3 seperate persons in one single deity... by definition, a trinity.

Shalom,
Yafet.

Sabian · Oct 9, 2003

I have to agree with simchat_torah
Some people make it sound like YAHSHUA was super human.
Like he Was born and just knew it all.
If that were True he should have been King by 5.

simchat_torah · Oct 9, 2003

Now, I don't reject something simply because there are similar pagan practices/doctrines in history that might even predate or be contemporary to a currently held theology (ie: the trinity).

I only reject it after it is explicitly shown that the particular subject in question was directly brought forth from paganism.

A very strong case can be made using St. Constantine and what he capitalized on in the growing pagan acceptance of doctrine in the 4th century ce.

What I'm saying is this: Yes, it is undeniable that the concept of trinity does in fact have pagan counterparts (see post above). However, one must explicitly prove that the idea of the trinity came from these pagan expressions.

I personally hold to it that it does, but it is difficult to prove (unlike Christmas or Easter), so typically I don't make a big deal about it. However, I try to show G-d's nature not by what I reject but instead by what I can prove scripturally. The trinity just can't be proven scripturally **as typically taught in christianity**.

I do, however, hold to a plurality in G-d's nature. I just don't see the Moshiach and the Father as co-equal (among a few other smaller varying differences). Yes, there does seem to be some form of Triune aspect of his holiness, but the way it has historically been expressed in christianity I feel is quite off base.

hehe, well, enough stirring of the waters for now.

Shalom,
Yafet.

Higher Truth · Oct 9, 2003

SW questioned:

1. How is Aramaic a "corrupted language"?

HT:

If Aramaic is corrupted then that would mean the Hebrew scriptures [old testament] is corrupted because parts of Daniel, Ezra, as well as some small portions of other books are written in Aramaic.

I do not agree with Sabian's original statement.

simchat_torah · Oct 9, 2003

I have to really question what is meant by stating that "aramaic is corrupted" as well...

????

any input sabian?

Sabian · Oct 9, 2003

1. How is Aramaic a "corrupted language"?
I might have said that A bit strongly but,
I believe YAHadowtyot is the Language that is the well of KNOWLEDGE.

2Ki 18:26 Then said Elyakim the son of Chilkiyah, and Shevna, and Yo'ach, to Ravshakeh, Please speak to your servants in the Syrian language; for we understand it: and don't speak with us in the YAHudim' language, in the ears of the people who are on the wall.
2Ki 18:27 But Ravshakeh said to them, Has my master sent me to your master, and to you, to speak these words? Hasn't he sent me to the men who sit on the wall, to eat their own dung, and to drink their own water with you?
2Ki 18:28 Then Ravshakeh stood, and cried with a loud voice in the YAHudim' language, and spoke, saying, Hear you the word of the great king, the king of Ashur.

(2 King 18:26,28) "Please speak to your servants in Aramaric, since
we understood it. Dont speak to us in (YAHadowtyot.} [28] Then
the commander stood and called out in (YAHadowtyot}."

(2 Chronicle 32:18) "They called out in (YAHadowtyot} to the people
of Yerusalem."
(Isaiah 36:11,13) "Speak
to your servants in Aramaric, since we understood it. Dont speak to
us in (YAHadowtyot}. [13] Then the commander stood and called out
in (YAHadowtyot.}"

SonWorshipper · Oct 9, 2003

simchat_torah said:
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It always seems that christians (and to some extent messianics) want to take away from Y'shua's humanity. I think it causes fear of heretical thought if one does so. I do believe that he studied Hebrew. We do know for sure that he knew hebrew as he read from the scrolls in the synagouge (which were all written in Hebrew).

I think that spiritually he was granted perfect discernment (ie: spirits, prophecy, etc) however, I think that he had human capacity as far as the mind goes.

just my 2 cents.

And then Melech Shlomo was just a man as well, nu?

I do hope you are not referring to me as a Christian Yafet? I shed that skin along time ago, at least in doctrine, if not name until I understood that there was a name more fitting for what I believed.
Anyway I was not denying the Messiah's humanity, but I was referring to his perfection as per this scripture:

Luke 2
40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

41 Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.
42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.
43 And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it.
44 But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance.
45 And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him.
46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.
47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.
51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.
52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

By these verses Yeshua seems like He wasn't your average 12 year old.

simchat_torah · Oct 9, 2003

no no no... don't worry sw... I know you.

SonWorshipper · Oct 9, 2003

you ARE Beautiful SM!

Higher Truth · Oct 9, 2003

Once again, the Messiah spoke to Paul on the road to Damascus in Aramaic. There are many Aramaic words and some Hebrew that have crossed over into the Greek NT. There is no perfect language until we are transformed, and it is then that it will be given to us. There are words of pagan origin in Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, English, etc.

Aramaic, The True NT language?

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